Mr Bojangles
New member
well I am working on mine now and its almost done. I am waiting on a few more parts and the glue to dry to leak test it but here are some pics
DIY Sulfur Denitrator
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
Any more ideas about cloudiness?
Still having a problem, & it gets worse with increased reactor volume. Is the initial reaction with the aragonite causing this?
My brands, quantities & specs are listed in a previous post above. Will this change/decrease with more use? Going on 3 weeks now, PH, alk, is fine, but the water looks cloudy with a slight film on the surface in a few areas. Skimmer is working well as normal.
Still having a problem, & it gets worse with increased reactor volume. Is the initial reaction with the aragonite causing this?
My brands, quantities & specs are listed in a previous post above. Will this change/decrease with more use? Going on 3 weeks now, PH, alk, is fine, but the water looks cloudy with a slight film on the surface in a few areas. Skimmer is working well as normal.
Is the effluent cloudy or just the tank? If the effluent is cloudy, it sounds like the sulfur is turning to mush (bad), if the effluent is clear and the tank is cloudy it sounds like a bacterial bloom and is probably unrelated, or unknown at this point. Perhaps Randy in the Chemistry forum might shed some light.
Black71gp
New member
i was having an issue with this as well.. i ended up adding some more ARM media in the reactor and took care of it.. from what i have seen the cloudy water due to the sulfur reactor is due to the acidic water inside the reactor, seems the media will calm that down and allow clearer water.. this is all i did in my system and it worked with in a day or two...
Both the tank & effluent are cloudy.
I have a bunch of aragonite (8lb) in there & the PH / Alkalinity is ok coming from the reactor.
I got paranoid & took the reactor apart to see what was up.
The sulfur was still in its original beaded shape. The water from it was was cloudy though. I rinsed it in water from the reactor & the result looked almost like a freshly mixed batch of kalk. It only had a very slight hint of sulfur smell... almost non existent
The aragonite was clean & in whole pieces & relatively clear.
Any ideas?
I have a bunch of aragonite (8lb) in there & the PH / Alkalinity is ok coming from the reactor.
I got paranoid & took the reactor apart to see what was up.
The sulfur was still in its original beaded shape. The water from it was was cloudy though. I rinsed it in water from the reactor & the result looked almost like a freshly mixed batch of kalk. It only had a very slight hint of sulfur smell... almost non existent
The aragonite was clean & in whole pieces & relatively clear.
Any ideas?
Update:
I took my sulfur denitrator down today. I started using it on January 9th.
I have a good number of fish and corals in my 550gallon system and feed them well. I use heavy skimming, carbon, a remote deep sand bed and several macroalgae refugia. Still my nitrates were around 60 to 80 ppm .
When starting the reactor I dripped it slowly into a bucket to avoid putting start up effluent with it's ammonia and nitrite into the system.I dripped at 2 drops per second or about about 5 gallons per day and discarded the water. I had to degas it daily. After about a week it was cycled and producing 0 nitrate water. At this point the effluent was allowed to drip back into the system. Over the next 10 days I gradually increased the flow to a point where I was getting 5x the sulfur volume per hour in flow( ie 15 liters of 0 nitrate water per hour with 5 liters of sulfur in the reactor). At the higher flow rate there was no need to degas the reactor ; presumably. the higher flow took all the nitrogen out with the water. After a few weeks at this rate nitrates were less than 10ppm in the system.
At this point, the response by certain corals was obvious to me. Seriatopora, monitpora and stylopora which were ailing are vibrant and growing. Acropora growth was better although the acros were less effected when the nittrates were high than the others noted were.There was little discernable effect on nepthia, sinularia ,sacrophyton. anemones, a variety of lps or even xenia. Chaetomorpha and gracileria algaes also seemed unaffected.
For the last week or so nitrates have remained at zero in the system or near zero despite what some would consider heavy feeding.
I continued to let the reactor run at maximum flow, figuring the oxygen coming in would keep the bacteria happy even at zero nitrate. Wrong.. I also ran the effluent over gfo in hopes it would remove any sulfide that might be produced once the bacteria in the reactor had no oxygen or nitrate to draw from and turned to sulfate fixation producing hydrogen sulfide. Glad I did.
Well, hydrogen sulfide was there today. The odor is unmistakable. However, when I removed the gfo canister( actually a diy'd plastic coffee can) there was no odor in the water in it or from the gfo. So, anecdotaly it seems gfo may indeed change sulfide to a less harmful form of slufur. Nitrate, ammonia and nitrate in my system were still 0.
The point is that these devices work very well at reducing nitrate and reducing nitrate when it is high appears to help some corals but they need to monitored vigilantly and when nitrates reach zero or near zero, they are best taken off line to wait on the shelf until nitrates rise again in the system , in my experience.
__________________
Tom
I took my sulfur denitrator down today. I started using it on January 9th.
I have a good number of fish and corals in my 550gallon system and feed them well. I use heavy skimming, carbon, a remote deep sand bed and several macroalgae refugia. Still my nitrates were around 60 to 80 ppm .
When starting the reactor I dripped it slowly into a bucket to avoid putting start up effluent with it's ammonia and nitrite into the system.I dripped at 2 drops per second or about about 5 gallons per day and discarded the water. I had to degas it daily. After about a week it was cycled and producing 0 nitrate water. At this point the effluent was allowed to drip back into the system. Over the next 10 days I gradually increased the flow to a point where I was getting 5x the sulfur volume per hour in flow( ie 15 liters of 0 nitrate water per hour with 5 liters of sulfur in the reactor). At the higher flow rate there was no need to degas the reactor ; presumably. the higher flow took all the nitrogen out with the water. After a few weeks at this rate nitrates were less than 10ppm in the system.
At this point, the response by certain corals was obvious to me. Seriatopora, monitpora and stylopora which were ailing are vibrant and growing. Acropora growth was better although the acros were less effected when the nittrates were high than the others noted were.There was little discernable effect on nepthia, sinularia ,sacrophyton. anemones, a variety of lps or even xenia. Chaetomorpha and gracileria algaes also seemed unaffected.
For the last week or so nitrates have remained at zero in the system or near zero despite what some would consider heavy feeding.
I continued to let the reactor run at maximum flow, figuring the oxygen coming in would keep the bacteria happy even at zero nitrate. Wrong.. I also ran the effluent over gfo in hopes it would remove any sulfide that might be produced once the bacteria in the reactor had no oxygen or nitrate to draw from and turned to sulfate fixation producing hydrogen sulfide. Glad I did.
Well, hydrogen sulfide was there today. The odor is unmistakable. However, when I removed the gfo canister( actually a diy'd plastic coffee can) there was no odor in the water in it or from the gfo. So, anecdotaly it seems gfo may indeed change sulfide to a less harmful form of slufur. Nitrate, ammonia and nitrate in my system were still 0.
The point is that these devices work very well at reducing nitrate and reducing nitrate when it is high appears to help some corals but they need to monitored vigilantly and when nitrates reach zero or near zero, they are best taken off line to wait on the shelf until nitrates rise again in the system , in my experience.
__________________
Tom
saltydog64
New member
Lonnie.......
Do you have a diatom filter or can you access one ??? I still think your dealing with an bacteria bloom brought on by the sugar trace(s) that are in your tank....you have tried just about all else. Sulfur denitrifcation by it's self doesnot cause cloudy water...period !!! to many folks have run these to show that. As I mentioned before everytime I added sugar, no matter how little the water clouded up....real fast...... try the diatom...
good luck..
GO PITT....
GO SU.......
Dick
Do you have a diatom filter or can you access one ??? I still think your dealing with an bacteria bloom brought on by the sugar trace(s) that are in your tank....you have tried just about all else. Sulfur denitrifcation by it's self doesnot cause cloudy water...period !!! to many folks have run these to show that. As I mentioned before everytime I added sugar, no matter how little the water clouded up....real fast...... try the diatom...
good luck..
GO PITT....
GO SU.......
Dick
Mister Scopas
In Memoriam
Farm stores aren't the best place to look for pelletized sulfur, as farm stores deal almost exclusively in water soluble sulfur preparations. I have found sulfur pellets in the farm stores, but they are a 90% sulfur + 10% inert ingredients formulation. They are compounded with a 10% filler to make the pellets dissolve upon exposure to rain water. You don't want sulfur pellets that dissolve as they will become soluble and exit the reactor, just as would sulfur powder.
The sulfur that you want is 99.9% pelletized sulfur that is water insoluble. Its easy to find from chemical houses in large quantities, but very hard to find in small packaging.
Well after some trial & error, I think I found a cure to my cloudy water.
It seems that my reactor was not working at the rate it should have, in addition to a cloudy water condition I could not figure out. I took it apart & rinsed the sulfur & reassembled everything. Started it back at 1 drop per sec for about 4 hours & it was back to zero. I increased flow to 2 & it quickly zeroed again. I kept increasing flow & it is now holding twice the flow at 0 nitrates than it would hold before in just a few days.
My only idea is that the flow was either too low or the tank nitrate was too high for that given flow rate. No idea actually, but I know it is working now.
I'm at 6lph now & the water is clearing up, the tank levels are coming down & all seems to be well.
It seems that my reactor was not working at the rate it should have, in addition to a cloudy water condition I could not figure out. I took it apart & rinsed the sulfur & reassembled everything. Started it back at 1 drop per sec for about 4 hours & it was back to zero. I increased flow to 2 & it quickly zeroed again. I kept increasing flow & it is now holding twice the flow at 0 nitrates than it would hold before in just a few days.
My only idea is that the flow was either too low or the tank nitrate was too high for that given flow rate. No idea actually, but I know it is working now.
I'm at 6lph now & the water is clearing up, the tank levels are coming down & all seems to be well.
Last edited:
zachtos
Active member
I have been running a DIY sulfur reactor since november of 2007. I have a 500G water volume and opted for 2L of media. No matter what flow rate I have given it over the last year, it gets plugged up with white sludge constantly and usually the effluent stinks of sulfur. I know that people say I must cut the media down and increase flow, but is this the only solution? It is a pain in the butt to keep doing that.
-by the way, it never brought my nitrates to 0, 1-2.5ppm but it did drop them from the 20's w/in a month. So it does work, but I'm just trying to improve the efficiency now.
*Also, over the years, have we determined that it is really a necessity to recirculate the device?
-by the way, it never brought my nitrates to 0, 1-2.5ppm but it did drop them from the 20's w/in a month. So it does work, but I'm just trying to improve the efficiency now.
*Also, over the years, have we determined that it is really a necessity to recirculate the device?
FWIW with 3liters of sulfur on 550gallons mine did get zero . Well what looks like zero on API and Salifert tests.
I took mine down after smelling hydrogen sulfide about 2 weeks ago.
Now I'm dosing 16ml vodka ,2ml vinegar and 1/4tsp sugar for phoshate and to see if I can maintain nitrates under 5ppm without the reactor.After two weeks it's still near 0, maybe 1 or 2ppm.
I took mine down after smelling hydrogen sulfide about 2 weeks ago.
Now I'm dosing 16ml vodka ,2ml vinegar and 1/4tsp sugar for phoshate and to see if I can maintain nitrates under 5ppm without the reactor.After two weeks it's still near 0, maybe 1 or 2ppm.
Corry
New member
Re-circulating pump and Carbonate media
Re-circulating pump and Carbonate media
Hi djfrankie,
I have a ~1000l tank (250 gallons I assume) and am busy building the DIY denitrifier. Thanks for the info.
Just a few questions, sorry if they have been answered but have gone throught the threads but taking very long.
1) The re-circulating maxijet pump - won't this fluidize the Sulfur beads or do you restrict the output of the pump? (I assume a maxijet 1200 = 1200l output/h)
2) I have a small maxijet-type pump that does 400l/h. Is this sufficient?
3) Furthermore, won't the re-circulating pump draw water from the input via venturi effect?
4) With a recirculating system can I use arogonite to neutralise the SO4 or do you recommend another type of media?
Again, my apologies if these questions have been answered, but have just seen the article and am very eager to build and start reactor.
kind regards,
Corry
Re-circulating pump and Carbonate media
Hi djfrankie,
I have a ~1000l tank (250 gallons I assume) and am busy building the DIY denitrifier. Thanks for the info.
Just a few questions, sorry if they have been answered but have gone throught the threads but taking very long.
1) The re-circulating maxijet pump - won't this fluidize the Sulfur beads or do you restrict the output of the pump? (I assume a maxijet 1200 = 1200l output/h)
2) I have a small maxijet-type pump that does 400l/h. Is this sufficient?
3) Furthermore, won't the re-circulating pump draw water from the input via venturi effect?
4) With a recirculating system can I use arogonite to neutralise the SO4 or do you recommend another type of media?
Again, my apologies if these questions have been answered, but have just seen the article and am very eager to build and start reactor.
kind regards,
Corry
My opinion and experience.
Question 1). Yes it will fluidize the sulfur media to a useful degree with low O2 water which is exactly what you want it to do. It will help prevent channeling and should maximize the surface exposure of the sulfur. No restriction on this pump is needed or desireable in my opinion. The maxi jet 1200 is about as small as I would go fro the recirculating pump.
Question 2) I don't think the maxi 400 will be large enough for the recirculating pump. It might be good for the feed pump.
Question 3) No it won't. It needs a little push from a pump coupled with gravity feed.
Question 4) Nothing will neutralize the SO4 ( sulfate) and you don't want to. It's a natural and large part of sea water.. There is 2700ppm in sea water and your mixed water, so anything you would use to remove S04 would harm your water overall. Because there is so much sulfate in the water already ,the effect of the additions from the reactor should not upset the overall water chemistry ratios significantly.
The problem is with sulfide from hydrogen sulfide formation which may occur when the reactor is running too slow or when a 0 nitrate condition otherwise exists, since the bacteria in this case can't strip the 0 from nitrate N03, they turn to sulfate for oxygen (S04) and produce hydrogen sulfide , which is toxic. It is thought the sulfide may be reduced to relatively harmless elemental sulfur by an interaction with granulated ferric oxide (gfo). So passing the effluent through gfo is prudent in my opinion.
The argonite will to some degree raise the ph of the effluent as it dissolves. It will also proivude a small amunt of alkalinity and calcium to the tank.
Question 1). Yes it will fluidize the sulfur media to a useful degree with low O2 water which is exactly what you want it to do. It will help prevent channeling and should maximize the surface exposure of the sulfur. No restriction on this pump is needed or desireable in my opinion. The maxi jet 1200 is about as small as I would go fro the recirculating pump.
Question 2) I don't think the maxi 400 will be large enough for the recirculating pump. It might be good for the feed pump.
Question 3) No it won't. It needs a little push from a pump coupled with gravity feed.
Question 4) Nothing will neutralize the SO4 ( sulfate) and you don't want to. It's a natural and large part of sea water.. There is 2700ppm in sea water and your mixed water, so anything you would use to remove S04 would harm your water overall. Because there is so much sulfate in the water already ,the effect of the additions from the reactor should not upset the overall water chemistry ratios significantly.
The problem is with sulfide from hydrogen sulfide formation which may occur when the reactor is running too slow or when a 0 nitrate condition otherwise exists, since the bacteria in this case can't strip the 0 from nitrate N03, they turn to sulfate for oxygen (S04) and produce hydrogen sulfide , which is toxic. It is thought the sulfide may be reduced to relatively harmless elemental sulfur by an interaction with granulated ferric oxide (gfo). So passing the effluent through gfo is prudent in my opinion.
The argonite will to some degree raise the ph of the effluent as it dissolves. It will also proivude a small amunt of alkalinity and calcium to the tank.
Mister Scopas
In Memoriam
Where does the idea come from that ferric oxide will reduce sulfides to elemental sulfur? Is this just pure reefer speculation, or are there some established / published facts of chemistry that you're referring to which back up the purported reaction with GFO?
Corry
New member
Thanks Tom (TMZ) going to rest alot easier tonight.
Mister Scopas, to answer your question. I am a pharmacist by professions plus have a post grad degree in Chemsitry so this one is right up my alley.
Ferric Oxide (Fe2O3), (rust is FeO or Iron oxide). Ferric denotes the Iron has a valence of +3, Ferrous a valence of +2.
Anyway, Hydrogen Sulfide (H2S) is very reactive and reacts with the Fe2O3 to firstly form FeS and this inturn reacts further to form FeOH2 and elemental Sulfur.
If you are so inclined the full mechanism of this reaction is explained by Davidov et al. (Mechanism of H2S Oxidation by Ferric Oxide and Hydroxide Surfaces, J. Phys. Chem. B, 1998, 102 (24), pp 4745â€"œ4752
Mister Scopas, to answer your question. I am a pharmacist by professions plus have a post grad degree in Chemsitry so this one is right up my alley.
Ferric Oxide (Fe2O3), (rust is FeO or Iron oxide). Ferric denotes the Iron has a valence of +3, Ferrous a valence of +2.
Anyway, Hydrogen Sulfide (H2S) is very reactive and reacts with the Fe2O3 to firstly form FeS and this inturn reacts further to form FeOH2 and elemental Sulfur.
If you are so inclined the full mechanism of this reaction is explained by Davidov et al. (Mechanism of H2S Oxidation by Ferric Oxide and Hydroxide Surfaces, J. Phys. Chem. B, 1998, 102 (24), pp 4745â€"œ4752
Mister Scopas
In Memoriam
Thanks TMZ/Corry. I learned something new today. 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14717245#post14717245 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mister Scopas
Thanks TMZ/Corry. I learned something new today.
You are welcome. I try not to offer reefer speculation and in those rare posts when I do , I specify it as such.
I picked up the gfo hypothesis from Randy Holmes Farley's article Hydrogen Sulfide in the Reef Aquarium. You can find it under his articles which are noted at the top of the reef chemistry forum.
I also noted that when my reactor started to produce some hydrogen sulfide , there was absolutely no odor in the container where the gfo was , nor the effluent from it . The reactor and aragonite chamber and their effluent was very odiferous.
Now, I didn't keep it running this way since I had no idea how long the gfo would work or if in fact it actually was working but it seemed so and it seemed to protect my system from a hydrogen sulfide.
captain7359
Active member
When running the gfo after the reactor is there any need to replace it or just replenish it as it reacts with the H2S? Can I use my exhausted gfo from my phos reactor or will that release the phos back to the system?
Tom, Thanks for the insights at the swap saturday.
-Walter
Tom, Thanks for the insights at the swap saturday.
-Walter
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