DIY Sulfur Denitrator

[Belgian Anthias]

Sulfer reactor rate

Sulfer reactor rate

To determine how much sulfur media you need, you should multiply your total system gallons x .006. For example:

120 gallon system x .006 = .72 liters of media or about ¾ of a liter.

they chopped it up in a quick build in the reefkeeping mag.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2009-01/diy/index.php

they were saying that the MJ1200 is a little too powerfull. but they were using it on 4in PVC so if you use 6 in then it might not be too bad. its a good thing that all MJ have the same output so it wont be hard to swap out a pump and impeller.

Beste,
In Europe we use the 1% rule. 100Gal system = 1 Gal sulfer. Your reactor must be 1/3 to 1/4 bigger; This means that your reactor must have +-1/3 more volume. Water current through the reactor for a normal bioload ( not heavely skimmed) could be 5x the amount of sulfer per hour. In this case 5 Gal/hour. Max is 10x. But I would put more sulfer when a higher rate is neccesary.
You can put a small bio before the sulferreactor so you are sure all amo and nitri are nitrate before entering the reactor. Put a small bal-flow meter behind the calcium reactors , for easy working and controle, and a flow regulating valve. Mine has a small ozon reactor ( closed skimmer) after the reactor so I aim 100% sure sulfite has no chance and I do not need carbon. If the reactor has no gas outlet, they can leave the system here.
The nitrate in the filtered water will be ZERO.
Mvg
Anthias

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Amonium

Amonium

I would blame the reactor. It will produce ammonia when it's not cycled fully. Mine did. I suggest you pull the effluent line out of your sump/tank drip it into a bucket and slow the reactor down to 1 or 2 drops per second until you start to get 0 or near ) ppm nitrate out of the reactor and of course 0 ammonia and 0 nitrate.Then you can put the linme back into your tank/sump and gradually increase the flow, doubling every 2 days or so;testing for 0 nitrate and doubling again and so on.

Beste
I do not think this is correct. When the flow is to slow it can produce nitrite. Nitrite can be changed in ammo by plants to be used as a food sorce,so there have to be alge in the reactor. Than you have an other problem; I do not think that ammonification is possible in a sulferreactor or am I wrong?
If there is ammo in the outlet water than it was already there at the inlet; To avoid ammo and nitri in the inletwater you can put a small fluidizized bed filter before the sulfer. The sulfer reactor will work better because most of the oxygen is already used by the nitrification in the bio. The bio must have a higher flow rate than the sulferreactor and enough volume so the bacteria will not dy during a power failure.
The sulferreactor will also work well without a bio in front but it will have a higher potential.
Mvg
Anthias

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Sulfiet

Sulfiet

The information about ORP can be found on page 7 in the instruction booklet for the Aqua-Medic Nitrate Reductor here:

http://www.aqua-medic.com/products/docs/Nitrate_Reductor_1000.pdf

Says that the ORP inside the reactor should be maintained at -50mv to -250mv, which is in contrast to the aquarium, which should be somewhere between +200mv to +400mv.

If it falls below -250, all nitrate has been consumed and you begin to get that rotten egg smell as the bacteria begins to break down the sulfur instead of NO3. This is when you increase flow rate.

If it rises above -50, then the bacterial cycle is incomplete and you start to get NO2. This is when you decrease the flow rate.

The Aqua-medic Nitrate reductors use a different media than the sulfur de-nitrators, but the principal is the same.

They are also the ones that supply an access for thier ORP probe, which is great, except I think the Aqua-medic ORP unit cost around $350.

Hope this helps.

Beste,
I do not agree with what is written here. I do not know anything about ORP reading because I have never mesured it in a sulferreactor.Why should I? What I do know is that the bacteria using a part of the sulfer is a normal process, that is why the sulfer is there. Sulfite is produced when all the bacteria dy for some reason. The decomposition of these dead bacteria will form the rotten egg smell. This can happen when the flow became to high ( above 10 times the amount of sulfer) then there is to much oxygen in the reactor and other bacteria will take over. So keep the flow at +- 5x the amount of sulfer. To little flow will form nitrite . Using a fluidizized bed as sulferreactor and oxygenating the outletwater eliminates all possible problems.This is for a running system. During start up there are other limitations.
When using the aqua medics you have to oxygenate the outcomming water before running it back to your system, because they have, at my knowledge, no gas outlet and all gasses, good and bad ,have to stay in the watercollum. Good reactors have a gas outlet.
I use Weipro KA-4000 calcium reactors, wich i have rebuild a little bit, for sulfer and calcium. They are sheap and work well.
Mvg
Anthias

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Sulfer reactor.

Sulfer reactor.

As you have noticed, I propagate the use of sulferreactors.
With " sulferreactor " I mean the chain of a fluidizised bed filled with sulfer followed by a fluidizised bed filled with calcium of minimum the same size, better is placing two in series.
As sulfer media I use the sulfer they use in greenhouses in sulferburners.
As calcium I use sand from coccolites ( bio-calcium) and/or schell-cruch they feed to the chickens (without additives).

 

[dahenley]

what do you say about using the effluent from the top of the reactor that way you can eliminate the degas valve?

 

[Belgian Anthias]

degas valve

degas valve

what do you say about using the effluent from the top of the reactor that way you can eliminate the degas valve?

In my opinion you do not need a valve to degas.
I use gravity feed for the reactors;
When you have a closed reactor you can make a hole on top with a tube that is high enough water can not leak out. Water in the reactor has to flow from bottom to top.
If you use a fluidizised bed it is better to use a tube that is high enough between de sulfer and the calcium reactor.
You can use the effluent,connect a tube on it wich makes a sifon after wich you can connect the tube of for example a bubble-counter. In this tube you have to put water. So now the gas kan go out and oxygen can not come in.
If you want I make a desingn but now i go to sleep. it is past 2 am here.
Mvg
Anthias

 

[Corry]

DJ Frankies 3rd or so post on the 1st page of the 1 split when this thread started

"To degass the unit. There's quite a bit of sulfate (end product) built up while cycling the unit.

All the gases accumulate on the highest point on the reactor.

I ran the effluent hose through the top to see if I wouldn't have to degass it anymore, but it didn't work. The effluent would get clogged up really quick. This way is just a quick 5 second degassing and you don't have to fiddle with the effluent rate every time.

HTH,
djfrankie"

Hope that answers your question.
DJFrankie answers most questions on the first section of the thread. READ, I go back all the time and learn something new everytime

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Degas

Degas

DJ Frankies 3rd or so post on the 1st page of the 1 split when this thread started

"To degass the unit. There's quite a bit of sulfate (end product) built up while cycling the unit.

All the gases accumulate on the highest point on the reactor.

I ran the effluent hose through the top to see if I wouldn't have to degass it anymore, but it didn't work. The effluent would get clogged up really quick. This way is just a quick 5 second degassing and you don't have to fiddle with the effluent rate every time.

HTH,
djfrankie"

Hope that answers your question.
DJFrankie answers most questions on the first section of the thread. READ, I go back all the time and learn something new everytime

When using filterpaches the size of the reactor to keep the sulfer in place would solve the problem. A reactor should be at least 1/4 bigger than the content of media. A fluidizised bed reactor always has patches otherwise the sulfer will choke up the pump.
The effluent is the exhaust of the reactor,right? ( English is a forreign language for me) I will read all the treads first because I do not understand how degassing may influence the rate of effluent. My system degasses it self naturally( gravity feed) without touching anything. I never have to think about it.
I did not read first section yet.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

mistake

mistake

In my opinion you do not need a valve to degas.
I use gravity feed for the reactors;
When you have a closed reactor you can make a hole on top with a tube that is high enough water can not leak out. Water in the reactor has to flow from bottom to top.
If you use a fluidizised bed it is better to use a tube that is high enough between de sulfer and the calcium reactor.
You can use the effluent,connect a tube on it wich makes a sifon after wich you can connect the tube of for example a bubble-counter. In this tube you have to put water. So now the gas kan go out and oxygen can not come in.
If you want I make a desingn but now i go to sleep. it is past 2 am here.
Mvg
Anthias

I mis understood the term "effluent" so you may forget the tird option with the siphon. it is for reactors whom are build from calcium reactors with a bublecounter " effluent".

 

[speedo2wet]

i am just wondering, why couldnt you use the degas at the top for your effluent?
i have been looking at making one of these for a while and now its time. i figured if you used the de gas valve for the effluent then you wouldnt have to degas it everyday. any comments on this?
thanks

I'm glad i'm not the only one. I have been looking for a degas valve so I would not have to manually do it since i'm not home everyday. I think it would be great. Do you know where there is one that is useable for this situation?

 

[dahenley]

i was thinking of the CA reactors that were turned in to Sulfur reactors. they dont have to degass. they just run the effluent at the highest part of the reactor. (this takes care of any gas that would accumulate. it would expell with the effluent.)

i will go back and start reading because all the masproduction reactors dont have a degass valve. set it and forget it. (i just dont have the 3-400+ for a off the shelf reactor)

 

[Belgian Anthias]

i was thinking of the CA reactors that were turned in to Sulfur reactors. they dont have to degass. they just run the effluent at the highest part of the reactor. (this takes care of any gas that would accumulate. it would expell with the effluent.)

i will go back and start reading because all the masproduction reactors dont have a degass valve. set it and forget it. (i just dont have the 3-400+ for a off the shelf reactor)

My system is gravity feed and not pressurized. Here an example of the way I did it. No 1 was the buble counter connection. Here I have a small airline valve. Even with the valve open there is no problem as long as water stays high enough in the tube. Because it is a fluidizised bed and the enfluent is on the bottom there is a tube(2) to make shure the reactor stayes filled and all cummulated gasses in the water can get out here befor the water flows to the calcium reactors. The tubes must be long enough to come above the max water level of the system.
On the original pumpconnection, delivered with the reactor, there is a small air tube inlet for the CO² connection from the bubble counter. So I connected Nr 1 with this pump connection and gasses stay always accumulated in the watercollum till they are driven out in Nr 2. I do not have to open or close a valve to degass.
These Weipro KA 4000 reactors I bought in UK on the internet, but they were imported from China. I spent +- 600€ for 4 units, that's +- 220$US a piece.. They were compleet calcium reactors and delivered with tubing , valve , and two pumps, one circulating and one for feeding. You can put 3 Gal in it. Filled with 2 Gal sulfur they suit a system of 200Gal. With 2 of them you have a compleet system that also provides calcium. I do not know they are imported in the US but you can buy them on the internet. They arrive in a box of two pieces total weight 11,2 kg.

 

[Mr Bojangles]

ok, my turn! I have had mine running for almost 6 months now and now I have 0 nitrates and my effluent is dripping at almost a constant stream. But its now smelling like rotten eggs. What am I supposed to do? open the effluent more? remove media? Or turn the reculation pump off?

 

[Corry]

ok, my turn! I have had mine running for almost 6 months now and now I have 0 nitrates and my effluent is dripping at almost a constant stream. But its now smelling like rotten eggs. What am I supposed to do? open the effluent more? remove media? Or turn the reculation pump off?

Yes, Step 1 raise the flow rate. Test for Nitrite (NO2-) after a day if that starts decrease flow rate and remove some media. Just upping the flow rate should sort this out.

Remeber your pH will decrease as will your alkalinity so need to check these as well

DON"T turn off re-circ pump.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

De-nitrification

De-nitrification

ok, my turn! I have had mine running for almost 6 months now and now I have 0 nitrates and my effluent is dripping at almost a constant stream. But its now smelling like rotten eggs. What am I supposed to do? open the effluent more? remove media? Or turn the reculation pump off?

For some reason your de-nitrifaction bacteria have died. When they had no nitrate anymore ( 0 nitrate) normally they feed on the Sulfer and there is no problem. In your case other bacteria have taken over and feed on the dead bacteria. Has your flow been verry high ( more than 10x de volume of sulfur) during a certain period?
To give advise I have to know the volume of your tank, the volume of your reactor, the volume of sulfur and your flow rate.
Increasing the flow rate without increasing the volume of sulfur can create more sulfite because you bring more oxygen into the reactor and kill all de-nitrifacation bacteria if any left. Is the sulfur covered with bacteria-slime?
Oxygenate the enfluent water to drive out all sulfite is the only advise I can give you for the moment.
Mvg
Anthias

 

[Mr Bojangles]

For some reason your de-nitrifaction bacteria have died. When they had no nitrate anymore ( 0 nitrate) normally they feed on the Sulfer and there is no problem. In your case other bacteria have taken over and feed on the dead bacteria. Has your flow been verry high ( more than 10x de volume of sulfur) during a certain period?
To give advise I have to know the volume of your tank, the volume of your reactor, the volume of sulfur and your flow rate.
Increasing the flow rate without increasing the volume of sulfur can create more sulfite because you bring more oxygen into the reactor and kill all de-nitrifacation bacteria if any left. Is the sulfur covered with bacteria-slime?
Oxygenate the enfluent water to drive out all sulfite is the only advise I can give you for the moment.
Mvg
Anthias

well my main tank is 125g, and total is 160g. As of now, in the bottom of the reactor, it is while with the stringy slime. So I am guessing that I should remove all of the media, rinse it off, and put only some back and not use all of it. I am using half of a container of the carabsea LSM, that runs into a separate container of calcium reactor media and the effluent drips into the skimmer intake.

note: this is not what it looks like now, just a pic of what I am using.........

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Start up again

Start up again

well my main tank is 125g, and total is 160g. As of now, in the bottom of the reactor, it is while with the stringy slime. So I am guessing that I should remove all of the media, rinse it off, and put only some back and not use all of it. I am using half of a container of the carabsea LSM, that runs into a separate container of calcium reactor media and the effluent drips into the skimmer intake.

note: this is not what it looks like now, just a pic of what I am using.........

I am not familiar with this type of reactor but I think it is a fluidizised bed because I see a pump. Anyway, if there is a lot of slime there has been or there still is to much oxygen in the reactor ( flow to high). de-nitrifacation bacteria do not produce much slime.
I would clean it and change 1/3 of the media with new. For 160gal you need 1.6 gal of sulfur with a effluent of +- 8 gal/hour (+- 5x the amount of sulfur).Now that you have 0 nitrate you can put less sulfur but always adapt the enfluent flow to the volume of sulfur to avoid to much oxygen coming in the reactor. You need to start up as it was a new system, very slowly and check for nitrite. Normally it will do the job again within a few days.
I use 2x the volume of the sulfur for calcium media in calcium reactors after the sulfurreactor and do not need a CO²calcium reactor.
Mvg

 

[Mr Bojangles]

Well it's a diy of my own design. It probaly had to high flow going threw it. So I claned it all up and now there is only a quarter of the media in there. I'm running it wide open for 24 hours then I will back it down to a drip per second just like I started. I just hope that a MJ1200 isn't too much now that I don't have it full

 

[Corry]

I don't think your denitrification bacteria have died (I do stand to be corrected though). Nitrate is always present in a system, but it is used up as quickly as it is generated. If the drop killed off all the dentrifyers that would apply to DSB's, Zeovit etc as well and you would have to start-stop-start-stop-start using these as your nitrates went up and down.
The rotten egg smell is caused by the conversion of Sulfate (SO4--) to H2S. As the nitrates are too low the bacteria then use the Sulfate as an oxygen source.

If you ramp up your flow a bit you introduce more Nitrates that they can use. To counter the H2S you can run your effluent through Granular Ferric Oxide (GFO) which converts the H2S back into S. If your flow is too high, the unit will produce Nitrites as the Nitrate isn't given chance to break down completely.
That is why your effluent should preferrably be directed back over the compartment of the Skimmer and LR. Nitrites will be converted back into Nitrates and the Skimmer will aerate the oxygen poor effluent.
Another simple way is to simply increase yor bio load a you now have to "feed" your reactor.
It is very importnat to remember that a Sulfur Denitrifyer is not a fire-and-forget item but has to be constantly monitored. That is probably why they haven't been as widely used as other nitrate reducers.

 

[Mr Bojangles]

I don't think your denitrification bacteria have died (I do stand to be corrected though). Nitrate is always present in a system, but it is used up as quickly as it is generated. If the drop killed off all the dentrifyers that would apply to DSB's, Zeovit etc as well and you would have to start-stop-start-stop-start using these as your nitrates went up and down.
The rotten egg smell is caused by the conversion of Sulfate (SO4--) to H2S. As the nitrates are too low the bacteria then use the Sulfate as an oxygen source.

If you ramp up your flow a bit you introduce more Nitrates that they can use. To counter the H2S you can run your effluent through Granular Ferric Oxide (GFO) which converts the H2S back into S. If your flow is too high, the unit will produce Nitrites as the Nitrate isn't given chance to break down completely.
That is why your effluent should preferrably be directed back over the compartment of the Skimmer and LR. Nitrites will be converted back into Nitrates and the Skimmer will aerate the oxygen poor effluent.
Another simple way is to simply increase yor bio load a you now have to "feed" your reactor.
It is very importnat to remember that a Sulfur Denitrifyer is not a fire-and-forget item but has to be constantly monitored. That is probably why they haven't been as widely used as other nitrate reducers.

well I like to say that I over feed my tank, 2 to 3 times a day, I have some large tangs that are pigs. I took my tank from 50 to 0 nitrates over 6 months, and I did increase the flow of the effluent into the skimmer intake. So I just think I was starving the SD, we will see how it does in this state