DIY Sump Design

[SFish]

The first baffle is from bottom to top which means it will set the water height. So some of the water will bypass sections over the top of the other baffles unless you put them up higher when forcing the water to go under the baffles. Besides that if you want to do mechanical filtering be it filter sock, sponge, or what ever all you need is for the water to go through that first and then throw the rest of the bags in after that. All you really need is a reactor and the tank. Have the reactor be your fluid filter and throw the bags in the tank.

 

[aSmallcat]

The first baffle is from bottom to top which means it will set the water height.

I think I see the confusion here. The first baffle sets the height for the first chamber. As soon as the first chamber fills up it begins to spill into the second chamber. From there it will pass through chamber 2 into 3 at the bottom filling them up together. Afterwards the water passes through chamber 4 filling up 4 and 5 together.

 

[aSmallcat]

It's the last baffle to touch the bottom of the tank that sets the water level requirement up to that point.

 

[aSmallcat]

I'm still concerned the fluid bed media won't cycle well. I'm considering changing that to a filter sock instead.

 

[NanoReefWanabe]

You ate going to end up with a tank full of baffles you can't use... that will be completely clogged up with detritus.... there is literally zero point to this design... if you want to run media you use reactors... if you are going to use pads stack them in one section where water falls over and through them...

 

[aSmallcat]

You ate going to end up with a tank full of baffles you can't use... that will be completely clogged up with detritus.... there is literally zero point to this design... if you want to run media you use reactors... if you are going to use pads stack them in one section where water falls over and through them...

I'm not sure you understand the processes involved here. The media is home to bacteria. The bacteria break down the detritus. The waste produced by the bacteria is food for plants. I have plants.

Will the media clog? Sure eventually. It's not meant to be permanent or maintenance fee. No media is. It's meant to be easily removable for cleaning or replacement.

Reactors force water through media. Baffles can do the same. Media reactors are an option not a requirement. To suggest otherwise is just silly or uninformed.

 

[SFish]

You ate going to end up with a tank full of baffles you can't use... that will be completely clogged up with detritus.... there is literally zero point to this design... if you want to run media you use reactors... if you are going to use pads stack them in one section where water falls over and through them...

That's the point i'm was trying to make. Besides that having all those baffles does nothing for you vs not having them.

 

[SFish]

I'm not sure you understand the processes involved here. The media is home to bacteria. The bacteria break down the detritus. The waste produced by the bacteria is food for plants. I have plants.

Will the media clog? Sure eventually. It's not meant to be permanent or maintenance fee. No media is. It's meant to be easily removable for cleaning or replacement.

Reactors force water through media. Baffles can do the same. Media reactors are an option not a requirement. To suggest otherwise is just silly or uninformed.

Reactors work better then putting bags in the sump. Any thing you put in a sump to catch debris has to be cleaned on a regular basis or it will cause problems. A lot of people won't run filter socks for that reason. You would probably get more out of a skimmer then your design without the risk. Your basically designing a canister filter. If that's what you want then why not just buy one?

 

[aSmallcat]

Besides that having all those baffles does nothing for you vs not having them.

Actually the baffles force the water through the media. Without them the water will follow around the media. Path of least resistance.

Though there are undoubtedly some similarities between a sump and a reactor they are not the same thing. One benefit of the sump is additional overall water volume which increases tank stability. Another is the ability to hide gear such as the water heater in the sump allowing my display to appear more natural.

As for the need to clean and change the media that's a given but I belive you are overstating the severity of it. Currently I'm running a small hob filter that rarely requires changing or rinsing. It just doesn't hold as much bacteria as I would like.

 

[SFish]

Your not going to force all the water through unless the bag is filled to the width of the sump 11 inches. On top of that any media that is meant to tumble is not going to do so in your system which means it will clump in the middle and not be as effective as it would be in a reactor. Also the the first chamber is as everything is not going to get trapped in that spot. Your letting the water go over the top it's not forced to go though anything. Your not the only one who's put bags in baffles that way. Yes the system will work but it's not needed. As is it creates more work for you to maintain then necessary. I'm not saying don't use a sump. A sump is a great tool.

 

[aSmallcat]

Well my media bags are 11 inches and my tank is 10 inches. So no problems there.

As for cycling k1, it may or may not work with gravity alone. Was actually hoping someone had tried it before and could comment on that. If I want it bad enough I can just add an air tube under the k1 media. Not 100% sure I want to go that rout yet though. I don't think it's necessary to have the weir on the bottom for the fluid bed chamber because the water would be circulating in there either by force of incoming water or an air input.

I don't know why you insist on taking such a negative angle on the project. The way I see it is that the sump will complete my ecosystem, add water volume and reduce overall maintenance. I mean what could be easier than pulling a bag out of the water? I see that you like reactors and that's a great option but its not the only option.

This thread is not meant to compare the pros and cons of reactors over sumps or sumps over reactors. It's meant to discuss diy sumps and different filtration media.

I agree the system will work. Is it needed? If you've gotta drive down the street do you need a Ferrari? Maybe not but I want one.

 

[SFish]

The possible problem with making the bag that big would be the middle becoming hard packed and it will also be way more then what you need. Like I said it will work but it is not necessary. It's not going to matter if carbon has its own section or not. The only thing that will matter would be the first filter.

 

[aSmallcat]

I see what you mean. But if I stack them together it's harder to change them out individually.

 

[SFish]

You don't need to layer the bags. Go from the overflow to the fluid filter and then just throw the bags in after. The problem is your designing this like a canister filter and it's not. Another problem will be the size of the tank. It's not that long and all those baffles are going to take up a lot of space if you can get them in.

 

[NanoReefWanabe]

Okay there is no similarity between a sump and a reactor other then the both can potentially hold water...a sump has two purposes... one added volume, two equipment storage... that is it... reactors are meant for media, water polishing, and bacterial culturing. Refuge are meant to house and breed copepods and macro algae. By trying to multi task components you run the risk of problems...clogging, channeling, detritus, lack of efficiency etc... as mentioned you are over complicating things ... if you are looking for bacteria culturing then you don't want to be blowing air through the media...as you say water will take the path of least resistance and will simply flow over top of all your baffles... you want lots of nitrifying bacteria then look into a remote deep sand bed... the idea behind this reef keeping hobby is keep things simple, so you will actually do them... yeah there is nothing hard about pulling a bag of media out of a sump , but then you have to dump it ( along with all that bacteria you wanted) clean the bag, prep new media and out it back in... sure some media lasts months, but you will have to clean it weekly at the least and doing so will destroy all your bacteria... and bacteria don't eat detritus... detritus breaks down into ammonia, from there bacteria get to work ... not saying your idea won't work but it is far more work and problematic

 

[aSmallcat]

Okay here we go :

there is no similarity between a sump and a reactor other then the both can potentially hold water.

Seriously?? Where do you get your information? How about they're both methods of filtration.

a sump has two purposes... one added volume, two equipment storage... that is it

Again.. Where do you get your information? Clearly not the case.
"A sump provides the space to add a larger volume of water to your system, which helps dilute waste and makes it easier to maintain proper water parameters. A sump is also an area where you can incorporate more advanced filtration equipment and techniques beyond what can fit inside or hang-on your aquarium. Another benefit of having a sump is that it allows you to remove a lot of the clutter from inside your aquarium: cords, pumps, probes and heaters can be concealed neatly inside a sump so your display tank has a spacious, natural appearance."
Source :
https://blog.marinedepot.com/education-center/charts-diagrams/what-is-a-sump

as mentioned you are over complicating things

Is it really that complicated? I'm putting baffles in a tank with some filtration media.. Pretty simple from my perspective.

if you are looking for bacteria culturing then you don't want to be blowing air through the media

Actually that's how fluid bed media cycles..

as you say water will take the path of least resistance and will simply flow over top of all your baffles

Your assuming my media is blocking the flow? You don't even know what media I plan to use yet so that's not really an informed opinion now is it. Let's not forget about gravity and how water prefers to go down and under not up and over.

yeah there is nothing hard about pulling a bag of media out of a sump , but then you have to dump it ( along with all that bacteria you wanted)

No. Just no. You never change all of the media at once. That is exactly how you lose your bacteria.

 

[SFish]

Just forget it nano. He's looking for confirmation of his design because he's not sure about it and wants someone to say it's perfect.

 

[aSmallcat]

Not really. I'm actually looking for media suggestions. What you two are saying is don't filter in a sump.. Counterproductive. You've also made a lot of apparently baseless assumptions.

 

[SFish]

No said not to filter in the sump. You clearly never ran a sump before.

 

[NanoReefWanabe]

Lol...a sump is designed to hold equipment plain and simple... you want to filter water you add filters (reactors) the only thing that should be "in" a sump is a skimmer (unless you have an external skimmer), some baffles, a heater or two, and a pump... anything else should be run outside the sump as "added on" filtration, refugium, reactors, sandbed, UV, etc... you keep things separate for several reasons... it is easier to change and maintain the media, the equipment...etc... also if something goes bad in any one piece of the equipment or media you only have to shut that particular piece down and fix it... and no... fluidized media reactors have zero air circulating through them, just water... the bacteria that do your nitrifying are anarobic and don't live in oxygen rich water... and even the super bacteria that occupy these special biopellet media will not like being disrupted by air... and regardless of baffle placement and orientation the media will quickly become clogged and water will simply flow over the top of them all... it takes about 3 hours for filter socks to get clogged up and the water to start rising in them. 90% of the people who run socks or floss do so during water changes or for short periods of time, to polish the water...same goes for carbon, a there are some who feel carbon is linked to lateral line problems in fish