DIY Zero Edge

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11135337#post11135337 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rosseau
I see that too.

Some of the DIY'ed ones as posted above do not have 100% glass covered by the overflowing water.

However, the actual Zero Edge tanks seem to have this accomplished.

I wonder how you would be able to allow a the "moat" to fill up a bit without overfilling or underfilling and running dry - really an aesthetic thing.

I guess ball valves or something on the drains could be used to vary the depth of this moat.

Yes, if you used the dual standpipe method, a moat would be easy to do... the primary drain regulated by a ball-valve at the bottom, and the secondary with a taller standpipe in the 'moat' in case the primary overflows. The moat would keep the noise and splashing to a minimum, and the 2 drain system would keep the drains silent and bubble-free as well.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11135337#post11135337 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rosseau
I see that too.

Some of the DIY'ed ones as posted above do not have 100% glass covered by the overflowing water.

However, the actual Zero Edge tanks seem to have this accomplished.

I wonder how you would be able to allow a the "moat" to fill up a bit without overfilling or underfilling and running dry - really an aesthetic thing.

I guess ball valves or something on the drains could be used to vary the depth of this moat.

I can't think of a good reason or safe one for that matter to have a valve on a drain, too much risk of clogs and overflows for me. I'm not sure why a DIY trough couldn't be a little deeper and actually have a very short custom Durso and while we're at it why not a drain on each side to help reduce any noise and accomodate high flow so the sheeting over the glass is complete. I also like the idea in one of the threads using the smooth black river rocks in the trough.

The major flaw I see in most of the pics is the returns. The idea of relying on check valves to save the inhabitants in a power outage makes me shudder. Why not loop SCH 80 grey returns or black SCH 40 returns near the surface and drill anti siphon holes in them to alleviate a possible disaster? You can still disguise most of the plumbing with rock and I for one could live with a little pipe showing to protect my investment. This also eliminates the need for a sump larger than the display to hold all the draining H2O.

Just some observations....


Tim:cool:
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11135526#post11135526 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
No, there is more to it than just using a thick cell-cast. I have seen 1" cell cast that is only 8" tall bend w/o a euro-brace. Even the thickest acryilic will bend w/o bracing. The trick is that the 0-edge ones are done with a bend already in the acrylic... so they are bent inward slightly and when you fill them, they bow out just right. Otherwise, I dont care what you use... 1" or even thicker... it will eventually warp.

Glass can be easily custom made to fit, and even without trim, you could get away with a fraction of the thickness because glass doesnt warp or bend as easily. For say, 2'x2'x1'h, you would only need 1/4" or 3/8" thick plate glass. You can get this from any plate glass place... usually for alot cheaper than acrylic. And then you can have them give the edges a flat polished edge, rounded edge, you name it. Glass, FWIW, is easier to do 'frameless' than acrylic.

The only disadvantage of glass is that you would have the silicone seams in the corners (unless you had a single piece bent... that would be cool). But it seems that is the main idea with the 0-edge... there are no seams. But with glass... you could 'own it' and just make your seams out of black silicone or something... it would just be different. But loads easier to DIY than acrylic.

Personally I think glass and black silicone would be the best idea for this project... Maybe go with black acrylic for the tray...

Tim:cool:
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11135769#post11135769 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hllywd
I can't think of a good reason or safe one for that matter to have a valve on a drain, too much risk of clogs and overflows for me. I'm not sure why a DIY trough couldn't be a little deeper and actually have a very short custom Durso and while we're at it why not a drain on each side to help reduce any noise and accomodate high flow so the sheeting over the glass is complete. I also like the idea in one of the threads using the smooth black river rocks in the trough.

Tim:cool:

Thats why there are two drains. Click on my red house to see this system in action. The primary drain has the valve on it. It allows me to run most of the water though the primary drain w/o any air or noise. I adjust the back pressure in the primary drain with the valve to raise the water level in the pipe... so the water doesnt fall as far/suck in air/make noise. The secondary drain is the backup then... no valve on it or anything. This system is better than any other for eliminating noise, air-bubbles, etc. Now I hope you see the good and safe reason to have a valve on the drain like this.
 
Hahn I do see what your talking about as well and I thought about that, who would want silicone if your going for a negative edge with no seams ;)

I also agree with what you said about acrylic being a PITA compared to glass, its definitely easier to work with than cell cast.

I wasn't aware that the acrylic was actually bowed inwards slightly to where when it is filled it bows out to where its supposed to be...it just goes to show why they cost so damn much.

Also hllywd,

The purpose of the tanks is to have no visible plumbing in the tank...I understand why someone wouldn't want to rely on check valves, but todays check valves especially for pools will last a good 5-8 years because they had to bring the standards up on them because of so many swimming pools using salt to produce chlorine.
 
You dont need to mess around with drains on a zero edge if you use boxes like the real ones. They will flow much more water than the return pump can push with no noise.
I just helped set up a nice brand new real Zero edge 48" long. It in no way was pre bent inwards. It is 3/4 acrylic and has no visable bowing without the return pump running. I think this has to due with the fact that they are so short.

Don
 
It sounds like it might be bent to a certain degree maybe its not visible to the human eye Don? I'm not certain though so I can't say for sure. Just a thought ;)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11136420#post11136420 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JaredWaites
It sounds like it might be bent to a certain degree maybe its not visible to the human eye Don? I'm not certain though so I can't say for sure. Just a thought ;)

Its not visable to a the yard stick that was used to check it either.

Don
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11136476#post11136476 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ud92785
Love the look.

What keeps the inmates from escaping and ending up in the sump, or worse on the floor?

Not a thing. Thats why you keep just bigger fish and no snails.:) I think escape attempts are just part of owning one that you have to deal with.

Don
 
Well, they arent 'bent', but the mfg does do something with the facing... I cant remember what exactly... to make sure that the panels bow inwards if anything (and then hopefully the water pressure evens this out).

I suppose, a circular version would eliminate this concern... or perhaps a hex or oct design... shorter sides will show less bowing... to the point where it may not even be a concern. I could see bending a large circle actually being a cost effective way to do this. For a 12" tall 0-edge, you would be able to get away with 1/2" acrylic.. I mean... whats it going to do? Bow out? Lol. If you made the circle wide enough (like a 3' diameter) distortion would be minimal as well.

As for the check-valves... I dont care what it is... if its rated 5-6 years on a pool, it will last 1 year on a reef. Pools dont have biofilms and critters that build up in the piping... they are 'sterile'. All you need is a tube-worm (very likely too) to deposit itself on the valve and your valve will fail. Monthly cleaning would be a possible solution... but who will do that?

My suggestion would be to run the return through a standpipe in the center that runs to the top of the tank. You could have a hole at the top, or the entire outlet, and this would prevent back flow. To cover this up, you could then use aragacrete or some drilled live rock to surround the pipe and make it blend in. It would require a pillar somewhere in the tank though... which you may not want.

If you have the ability to plumb behind a wall or something, there is another, better option as well...
Howtodo0-edgepeg.jpg


You plumb the pump output up into a PVC standpipe... 3" or 4" diameter with a capped bottom and open top. Then this pipe provides the static pressure for the discharge into the tank. The diameter of this pipe isnt so important, but its height will be determined by the flow of the return pump, and the diameter of the pipe from the PVC standpipe to the bottom of the tank... a smaller diameter pipe, or higher flow pump will require a taller standpipe. Since these style tanks often rely on the sump return pumps for all of their flow, this could require a very tall standpipe or very large inlet pipe into the tank... not that its that bad.

I suppose, if you wanted, you could make the standpipe shorter, and use one of those float-valves like Beckett skimmer collection cups use.... when the water level in the standpipe is full, the valve would close, and when the pump shuts off, the ball would drop/open and the standpipe would have its top open. Still... its a valve that can fail, but in a much more reliable manner.

Either way, this would allow for not needing a standpipe in the tank, or a check-valve. It would mean running a couple pipes through a wall, or perhaps just having a box standing next to the tank (perhaps you could even disguise these pipes into the light hanging system by putting the feed hose in through the bottom of the standpipe next to the tank, so all you would see is a 2-3" diameter pipe, which could also hold your pendant lighting).

I also have shown how to do the drain plumbing. A primary drain with a valve on the output will allow for silent operation (until the valve clogs, and then you would hear that you need to adjust the valve/clean it). The secondary is the backup when the water flow through the primary varies... but the small amounf of water running through the secondary keeps the noise and air to a minimum (on my tank, you cant even tell). This also comes in handy for a skimmer... if you use a recirculating skimmer, you can plumb the primary line right into the skimmer (make sure the skimmer uses a telescoping standpipe, not a gate valve on its output).
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11136494#post11136494 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Donw
Not a thing. Thats why you keep just bigger fish and no snails.:) I think escape attempts are just part of owning one that you have to deal with.

Don

If the 'moat' is large enough, you could catch the jumpers for the most part. You can put strainers on the drain pipes to keep things from getting into the drains. But in general, with these tanks, you have to use careful critter selection. You could use all hermit crabs, and no snails, for cleaning... since hermits cant go up the glass. Or you just bet on cleaning snails out of the 'moat' when you see them... as long as you use screens on the drain pipes, its not a problem. Otherwise, fairy wrasses, firefish, many gobies, and other jumping fish are simply out of the question for this tank... their biggest drawback. Name a fish that doesnt EVER jump... yeah... right.
 
What if a snail or some other debris gets caught in the check valve? I don't doubt they are reliable in certain applications but I think it's likely Murphy will show his ugly mug here...

Tim:cool:
 
I wouldnt screen the drain. I would screen the return area of the sump assuming the real zero edge box design is used. There isnt enough water to keep the fish alive. My two drains are 2"x 8" with a egg crate screen in the sump. This way if any fish makes there way into the gutter they will get trapped in the sump return area to live happily until I get off my but and dig them out.
I also have two check valves that hopefully I'll clean every couple of weeks. I just ordered up a jandy valve and 24V actuator that will close if my return fails or power goes out.
There is no aguing that in general these take a little extra work, but they are not really set up to become a full sps reef either. Definatly a breed of their own.


Don
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11136748#post11136748 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hllywd
What if a snail or some other debris gets caught in the check valve? I don't doubt they are reliable in certain applications but I think it's likely Murphy will show his ugly mug here...

Tim:cool:

What ckeck valve? If you mean in the pic I posted... there is no check valve... thats the whole point.
 
I think they flow to much water for that to work. A 55 3 sided takes about 3000 gph to work properly. They use a mag36. That would be a 2.5 standpipe for the drain. I'm using a dart with very little head and may need to go bigger after the jandy valve restricts a little more.

Don
 
3000gph? Okay... so the primary drain would have to be 1.5-2" diameter, and the secondary 2" diameter.

As for the return, as long as the return line to the tank is 1.5" diameter (nice wide flow), the 'standpipe' on the return would have to be about 3' above the waterline of the tank.

Its just a matter of the piping diameter.
 
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