Do sand sifters cause more damage than good in a DSB?

Re: Worms for the DSB

Re: Worms for the DSB

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6525728#post6525728 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CaptiveReef
Valid point, but the tank DSB will be compromised by the larger sifters, the Refugium will not be disturbed, and they do work as long as they have a constant supply of tank water going through them.

:D CaptiveReef

Putting a "critter screen" at about 2" depth in the main display will curtail a "portion" of larger sand sifters activities, without overly disturbing them, and allows the remainder of sand bed below to continue to function, quite well.

It may not work quite as well as a more undisturbed sand bed, but it is better than allowing the larger animals free "rein", in the bed. If the sifters don't starve, you are in pretty good shape.

Main DSB and RDSB will work fine together. They just have an easier time of it together.

> Barry :)
 
According to what I read in Dr Ron's forum a remote DSB just doesnt function properly because in order to keep the necessary infauna alive and reproducing the tank needs to be fed which defeats the purpose. Also in Shimeks "Marine Invertebrates" sand dollars are described as algae eating however they require alot of sand bed for survival like 10 sq. feet per individual. Also Dr. Rons comments on sand sifting gobies are that as long as sand bed is large enough (sorry don't have the figures) they're okay, but in a smaller sand bed their burrowing activities can be detrimental.
 
I find remote DSB's and plenums to be superior to an 'in-tank' setup for many reasons.

First, light. DSBs and plenums do best under little light to avoid the formation of photosynthetic bacteria and algae on the sand. This can disrupt the NNR by providing oxygen to lower levels that a sand bed without lighting would never develop. Also, sandbed critters are just more active w/o bright lighting.

Second, a remote tank allows you to disconnect the system should things go sour. If in the main display, the whole tank has to be torn down to eliminate the problem.

Third, plenums do better with low flow. Main reefs tend to be turbulent. This can oxygenate lower sand layers just like light and end up with NNR disruption. The low turbulence also allows for setting of detritus for feeding the DSB. A 30 breeder can be set up with all sand and with only 100gph going through it.

Fourth, no major digging by the main tank's critters like gobies, shrimp, hermits, etc that can also disrupt things. Also, no rocks on the plenum, which creates dead zones. A remote plenum allows you to do a plenum w/o the challenges of integrating it with a main reef... like having to look at 5-6" of sand in the viewing area.

A remote plenum seems to be a better option to me, without any real disadvantages. Dr. Robert J. Goldstein suggests this in his "Marine Reef Aquarium Handbook" as well.
 
I like the idea of a remote DSB myself as well especially for the natural food that it can supply continuously to the main display tank.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6611098#post6611098 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by graveyardworm
According to what I read in Dr Ron's forum a remote DSB just doesnt function properly because in order to keep the necessary infauna alive and reproducing the tank needs to be fed which defeats the purpose.

Dr. Ron's statements have a history of "wandering around". Enough said.

The Remote DSB does not try to, or need to, function like a DSB in the display tank. Fauna are not necessary in a RDSB. Some will be there even with higher flow, but if you are trying to produce food, you do it in a different way, in a different location.

The high flow, keeps solids from collecting at the surface, so it is mostly dissolved nutrients being processed. which causes a much smaller "clumping" potential than otherwise. The low light tends to eliminate algae and cyano growth as well, and these two differences reduce any bio-turbation requirement to nearly zero.

That having been said, and while I like the RDSB concept, if an aquarist is trying to reduce Nitrate levels from more than 20 to 1 or more, something is not right in the display tank to begin with.

While the RDSB will help to reduce these extreme nutrient levels, the under-lying cause should be identified and remedied as well.

> Barry :)
 
Thanks guys

MY 150 gal tank, with plenum and 5-6 inches of sand (set up as recommended by J Sprung, has been running for about 6 months now and MO3 is over 20. I was initially thinking the the NO3 reducing capability of the plenum has not kicked in yet as the setup is still new. I am using a beckett skimmer which should be plenty big enough and am getting lots of skimmate. I am keeping LPS and have a reasonably high fish bio-load.

I think that I should remove the 3 sand dollars...i just can't help thinking that they are eating up some goodies that should remain in the sand.

What do you think?
 
I think the sand bed in a 150 isnt supposed to be enough to support 3 sand dollars, but if they've been in there awhile then you probably have something adequate for them. I dont believe they eat bacteria supposedly they eat algae, although there seems to be alot of confusion over their diet. I would think that your high NO3 is probably related more to your high fish load than improperly working DSB.
 
I have 2 Sand Sifting Stars and have had no problems as of yet. I do seed my tank with pod's from time to time. I buy them locally.

I also have about 30 sand sifting snails as well as a Pink Spotted Watchman Goby
 
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