Does UV light help in treatment of Ich?
- Thread starter Rav-65
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ATJ
Premium Member
Vincent,
It is possible to buy UV sterilizer units which pass water over a UV lamp. If tuned correctly (flow rate and UV output), all organisms which pass through the unit will be killed.
These units are not very effective for the treatment of "Ich" because most of the parasites are able to avoid passing through the unit and so are unaffected.
There is no other safe way of using UV on an aquarium as if it is going to kill the "Ich", it will kill everything else.
It is possible to buy UV sterilizer units which pass water over a UV lamp. If tuned correctly (flow rate and UV output), all organisms which pass through the unit will be killed.
These units are not very effective for the treatment of "Ich" because most of the parasites are able to avoid passing through the unit and so are unaffected.
There is no other safe way of using UV on an aquarium as if it is going to kill the "Ich", it will kill everything else.
SAT
Premium Member
Another problem is that Cryptocaryon is an exceptionally large organism. The required UV dosage is proportional to the size of the organism. If you use "standard" dosages (15,000-30,000 micro-watts/square-cm or uws), all you'll do is make them mad. 
You need about 100,000 uws to sterilize Ich or 300,000-400,000 to kill it outright. Most UV units are sized to kill bacteria and algal spores, not protozoans.
You need about 100,000 uws to sterilize Ich or 300,000-400,000 to kill it outright. Most UV units are sized to kill bacteria and algal spores, not protozoans.
2004jeepoutlander
New member
i would buy a clener or fire shrimp instead the are cooler and cheaper
tankslave
New member
Don't glaze over the value of a UV to quick, however. Keep in mind that your aquarium water is circulated several times an hour through the UV steriizer. (see article last april in FAMA) While ATJ swears its just a nightlight, there's good reason we use it in the lab to keep things sterile. Lots of people will testify to its effectiveness; it kills algae free floating around too.
ATJ
Premium Member
And parasites such as marine "Ich" and Amyloodinium can make it from fish to substrate and from substrate to fish in less than 30 minutes. Sure if they spent longer in the water column a sterilizer might help, but they don't. Brooklynella spends almost no time in the water column.tankslave said:
Bomber
10 & Over Club
Vincent
If you really want to use a UV, here's how to make them work.
You'll need a bit of in tank circulation, fish parasites in the free swimming stage are not good swimmers (unlike the pods etc that everyone is so worried about killing) and are easily swept away with the current. You need enough current to sweep them up and into the water column so the UV can pick them up.
We get the best results using the following formula. Sort of a industry standard.
System volume X 4-5 system turnovers per hour = a UV sized to kill parasites at that flow rate.
For instance:
100gal system X 5 = UV rated to kill parasites at a flow rate of 500gal per hour.
A UV will work better and be easier to service if you'll just install it on it's one loop/pump in the system.
If you're in the market to buy one, look for a HO bulb (not NO) they last more than twice as long as a NO bulb and combine it with a electronic ballast, which also makes the bulb last even longer.
Check with the manufacturer for what they recommend as the flow rate for their units to kill salt water parasites. Bulbs, ballasts, physical construction of the unit itself will all make a difference.
BTW UV is the only thing you can use on a mixed invert/fish system that will work for parasites.
If you really want to use a UV, here's how to make them work.
You'll need a bit of in tank circulation, fish parasites in the free swimming stage are not good swimmers (unlike the pods etc that everyone is so worried about killing) and are easily swept away with the current. You need enough current to sweep them up and into the water column so the UV can pick them up.
We get the best results using the following formula. Sort of a industry standard.
System volume X 4-5 system turnovers per hour = a UV sized to kill parasites at that flow rate.
For instance:
100gal system X 5 = UV rated to kill parasites at a flow rate of 500gal per hour.
A UV will work better and be easier to service if you'll just install it on it's one loop/pump in the system.
If you're in the market to buy one, look for a HO bulb (not NO) they last more than twice as long as a NO bulb and combine it with a electronic ballast, which also makes the bulb last even longer.
Check with the manufacturer for what they recommend as the flow rate for their units to kill salt water parasites. Bulbs, ballasts, physical construction of the unit itself will all make a difference.
BTW UV is the only thing you can use on a mixed invert/fish system that will work for parasites.
ATJ
Premium Member
Cheung et al. 1979:Bomber said:ATJ where are you getting this info from? LOL I have a feeling it's been somehow "bastardized".
Burgess and Matthews (1994) found that C. irritans trophonts all detached during hours of darkness when the fish were at rest. This would increase the chance of trophonts making it from fish to substrate without passing through a UV sterilizer unit, particularly for fish that rest on or near the substrate.
Excystment of C. irritans was also found to occur during the dark hours (Burgess and Matthews, 1994; Yoshinaga and Dickerson, 1994; Diggles and Lester, 1996), again greatly shortening the time the theronts spend seeking out a host and reducing the chances of theronts passing through a sterilizer.
Burgess P.J. and Matthews R.A. 1994. <i>Cryotocaryon irritans</i> (Ciliophora): photoperiod and transmission in marine fish. <i>Journal of the Marine Biological Association of the United Kingdom</i>.<b>74</b>:535-542.
Cheung P.J., Nigrelli R.F. and Ruggieri G.D. 1979. Studies on cryptocaryoniasis in marine fish: effect of temperature and salinity on reproductive cycle of <i>Cryptocaryon irritans</i> Brown, 1951. <i>J. Fish Dis.</i>.<b>2</b>:93-97.
Yoshinaga T. and Dickerson H.W. 1994. Laboratory propagation of <i>Cryptocaryon irritans</i> Brown, 1951 on saltwater-adapted black mollies Poecilia latipinna. <i>J. Aquat. Anim. Health</i>.<b>6</b>:197-201.
it will
it will
It will stop ich from spreading from one fish to another. Thats worth it's weight in gold right there. Also will make your water more clear (check for propor watt and flow rates) . I also believe it will help kill ich in the long run on your fish if everything else is good. It is not a quick fix for ich on a fich but good for future additions or out breaks in the future.
it will
It will stop ich from spreading from one fish to another. Thats worth it's weight in gold right there. Also will make your water more clear (check for propor watt and flow rates) . I also believe it will help kill ich in the long run on your fish if everything else is good. It is not a quick fix for ich on a fich but good for future additions or out breaks in the future.
Bomber
10 & Over Club
I understand why this quote has some bearing on UV's. The other three - dunno.
Just on ick. Trophonts do play the drop and sit routine. However, theronts are conditioned to hatching a few hours before first light. That greatly increases their chances of if not re-infecting the same host, finding another host that has taken up the same home for the night. They are oriented to traveling up, off the bottom (they are not oriented to substrate, that would lessen their chances of survival), which again increases their chances of finding a host. It also increases their chances of being up and in the water column to be picked up by a UV.
If you understand how they work, it's obvious why a UV is very effective against them.
There are several other reasons for hobbyists using a UV too.
One, most hobbyists cannot distinguish between Ick, Velvet, Brooke, etc. UV will treat them all.
Two, UV will work in a reef tank with corals and invertebrates. Nothing else will.
Three, if you understand what UV does, not just biologically but chemically in saltwater, it's a win win for reef tanks.
ATJ
Premium Member
Just on ick. Trophonts do play the drop and sit routine. However, theronts are conditioned to hatching a few hours before first light. That greatly increases their chances of if not re-infecting the same host, finding another host that has taken up the same home for the night. They are oriented to traveling up, off the bottom (they are not oriented to substrate, that would lessen their chances of survival), which again increases their chances of finding a host. It also increases their chances of being up and in the water column to be picked up by a UV.
As most fish in an aquarium hole up in the same place every night, there is a very good chance they will be reinfected with the offspring of the parasites that detached from them, for the very reasons you describe. Due to the proximity of the fish to the substrate, the theronts have a much greater chance of finding the fish before they go anywhere near the sterilizer.
If you understand how they work, it's obvious why a UV is very effective against them.
I understand the life cycle of "Ich" only too well which is why it is obvious to me that UV is not very effective against these parasites.
There are several other reasons for hobbyists using a UV too.
One, most hobbyists cannot distinguish between Ick, Velvet, Brooke, etc. UV will treat them all.
Brooklynella has no free living stage. As the parasites do not need to leave the fish to reproduce, UV is going to be completely useless in saving an infected fish. Further, as parasites can pass from fish to fish that are in close proximity, it will also be able to infect other fish without going anywhere near the sterilizer.
Two, UV will work in a reef tank with corals and invertebrates. Nothing else will.
Prevention works great for a reef tank with corals and invertebrates.
Three, if you understand what UV does, not just biologically but chemically in saltwater, it's a win win for reef tanks.
Please explain what this comment means.
The problem with UV is even if it was tuned the best way it could possibly be tuned, parasites can still survive in the tank without passing through the unit. There is no way you can guarantee that all parasites will be eliminated. If all the parasites can't be eliminated, at best all the sterilizer will do is reduce the numbers of parasites. This means you have to keep running it continuously and if you turn it off, you risk having the numbers of parasites bounce back to dangerous levels.
Tuning also means having the circulation in the tank configured in such a way that there are no dead zones and flow in every part of the aquarium will force all water and swimming parasites towards the inlet of the UV sterilizer. This is a very difficult thing to do and is virtually impossible to validate. So even if you have all the best intentions, you can't guarantee it will be even partially successful.
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