Does UV really help to kill ich?

[Paul B]

I agree with Fenner; if you don't have and use a QT----this hobby isn't for you.

Dam, I wish I knew this when I started. :headwally:

 

[MrTuskfish]

Dam, I wish I knew this when I started. :headwally:

Me too.Even though every major book on our hobby says the same thing; I learned the hard way.
This forum is constantly filled with posts from hobbyists who need to QT and are trying to learn how. Many have/will experience total wipe-outs because they won't use one. There are very few hobbyists who share your success without one and (IMO) you sure aren't helping anyone by suggesting that going your route is going to be successful. I've done a lot of things in this hobby that probably shouldn't have worked. But I'm sure not going to suggest that someone else do something that fails the vast majority of the time its tried. BTW, do you really think most hobbyists, especially newcomers, have the ability to get fish into ''spawning condition"?

 

[sandwi54]

Paul, I have to say I agree with MrTusk. It's like telling someone who's learning snowboarding the first time to jump off the double black diamond slope like a pro. A newbie cannot possibly know how to get fish into spawning condition; actually, I don't know how either, but I do know how to kill ich!

I think what most newbies need is a set of instructions on how to set up tanks and how to properly quarantine and treat new fish without introducing any potential disease into DT. While I think your methods work, they are neither appropriate nor achieveable for the majority of the hobbyists, especially the newcomers.

Just now someone posted this, and it is a solid example of the necessity of QT for new hobbyists.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2112301

 

[Paul B]

BTW, do you really think most hobbyists, especially newcomers, have the ability to get fish into ''spawning condition"?

I also always put in there that Noobs should quarantine. When I was a Noob, I had all kinds of ich problems but when I was still a Noob, I also learned how to get fish in spawning condition and it was very simple. I was breeding blue devils a couple of years after I started my tank and all it took was switching my fishes diet from flakes and prepared foods to some worms. It doesn't seem very hard.

It's like telling someone who's learning snowboarding the first time to jump off the double black diamond slope like a pro.

The first, and last time I did that I broke my leg in 3 places and was in a cast for 7 months, so that was much harder than getting fish in spawning condition
I am not that smart, I am not a marine biologist or scientist, I am an electrician so why is it so hard to feed fish something that will keep them healthy? Yes, of course quarantine, if done correctly it will keep paracites out of your tank, but while you are quarantining, get the fish in good shape.
I also use a reverse UG filter, most people think I am nuts and say it can't work. Well it does work and it works longer than any other system but people who don't know how to use it resist it and think I use some kind of magic.
I have been dealing with ich for about 50 years, much longer than most people who have been writing books about it and I did learn a few things. I have a little experience that I am trying to share before I croak. I am sorry if I am coming of as a snob or know it all, I don't know it all but I do know some things and fish in great condition don't get sick. Quaranting, if done to everything also works but inevidently, eventually you will get a paracite in there and if your fish are not in excellent condition you can lost the tank, as I have done many times.
All it takes is a mature tank (so new tanks must quarantine for a few years) and the correct food, that is food with a high fish oil content like live worms.
You can jump off snowboards if you like but I would break my leg again, and I hate when I do that. :headwalls:
I know my ideas are a little out there but that is because I started this way before the internet and before there were any salt water authors, but sometimes there are ways to do things that you will not read from "experts"
Anyway, I am finished. Have a great day and a fantastic new Year. :celeb1:

PS this is a fish disease forum, not a Noob forum. I try not to go there but sometimes I forget, and get in trouble. :spin2:

 

[seahorsedreams]

Anyway, I am finished. Have a great day and a fantastic new Year. :celeb1:

You're finished!!! But.... But.... I didn't come back to the party here last night.... I'm old... I feel asleep with a book on my face. That's always a delightful way to wake up!

 

[Paul B]

I'm old... I feel asleep with a book on my face. That's always a delightful way to wake up!

Your probably not as old as I am and it depends on what book you found on your face this morning. I sleep with my face in the tank so I woke up with a hermit crab up my nose. :lolspin:

 

[MrTuskfish]

Paul, just curious; do you QT new fish? I admit to being a parasite paranoid and (for my own tanks) I'm a lot more concerned about velvet or brooklynella than ich. Especially since some of the best fish available are treated with low doses of copper almost from the instant of their capture and this can make velvet very hard to spot, until the copper disappears. I know brooklynella is most common among wild clowns; but so many facilities are now on central systems, that lots of fish can be exposed. This has been a great discussion happy New Year!

 

[Paul B]

just curious; do you QT new fish?

MrTuskfish, don't get mad at me but I do not have to quarantine anything. I added a couple of fish last week. I don't have a quarantine or hospital tank.
Remember I never said I had anything against quarantining fish, I said (a number of times) that fish in spawning condition do not get sick.
As you probably know, my reef has been up for 40 years and some of the fish are very old. There is a reason my fish get very old and a reason I do not have to quarantine. No, it's not that luck thing.
I know on this and other forums many people worry about things such as ich and with good reason, it can wipe out a tank in a couple of days. I know it well from my first tanks to the wholesalers and retailers tanks I had associations with. It is a horrible parasite. But I live by the sea and add animals, water, seaweeds etc almost every day so I can't quarantine all of these things. If I had a new tank I would have to or if my fish were not in breeding condition, I would also have to. No doubt.
When I served In Viet Nam I took a malaria pill every day. If I didn't take the pill I would almost certainly get malaria, which is a paracite very similar to ich.
The Vietnamese people had no pills, but the healthy people (who had good food and clean water) did not get malaria.
When I went to Mexico I did not drink the water but I still ended up in the hospital from dysentary. The Mexican people that live in the cities and are healthy do not get sick, why not?
Isn't it better to be immune from the disease than to try to cure it later?
There is a simple way to keep your fish immune from most diseases.
In my opinion quarantining is great but if you want to have your tank up and running for a long time isn't it worth it to learn how to get and keep your fish in the best condition they can be in?
No one asked how to get a fish in spawning condition. That is interesting.
But there is a lot of discussion of paracite life cycles.
Life cycles of paracites is something we as hobbiests should be aware of but more important than that IMO is how do we get fish very healthy so they live for 10 or 20 years with no sickness. I don't do anything different for my fish than anyone else becides feed them differently. Many of them are spawning because if your fish are not spawning or at least making spawning jestures, you better quarantine because they are not very healthy at all.
All healthy fish spawn, or at least are capable of spawning. It is the most important sigh of health in a fish. People can "spawn" almost no matter what condition we are in, fish can not. Most, but not all fish also live 15 or 20 years.
Remember, I never said that you should not quarantine, I said "I" don't have to quarantine but for a Noob or if your fish are not in spawning condition, then by all means quarantine because you will have to. :fish1:
By the way, I also love this discussion even though everyone seems to think I am against quarantining.
This blue devil was among the first batch of saltwater fish imported into NY in the 70s.
He is over his nest of eggs in that barnacle shell circa 1973
All I did to get him spawning and ich free was to feed him a few live blackworms every day along with some fresh clam. Before that, I had to keep copper in the tank continousely.
Him and his harem of 6 females lived 7 years and spawned every month of so.

watchman gobi tending her eggs with no help from me besides feeding foods high in oil

This fireclown is 16 or 17 years old, never sick and still spawning. Bites the heck out of me when I stick my hand in the tank. (That white thing with the red stuff is a decorator crab)

This female pipefish has been spawning for 3 years. She gets new born brine shrimp every day.
Never been sick.

This is one of the big secrets to great health. Live blackworms. Yes I know, very technical.

 

[seahorsedreams]

I have to argue spawning even being an indication of a higher level of health. I had fish breed while being in a hospital tank with meds!

And then there's things that spawn solely based on the fact they are stressed.

Of course, I'm not saying this is your case, I'm just adding that.


I'm only finding one source that says the immunity lasts for only 6 months. The rest don't really touch on it, except the one about vaccinations. They do say that the vaccination has not proven to be a life long immunity.... so it kind of sounds like they are corroborating the timed hypthesis.

 

[Paul B]

I had fish breed while being in a hospital tank with meds!

Salt water fish? Fish can be in a hospital tank with meds and still be healthy.
They can be in a bathtub and be healthy

And then there's things that spawn solely based on the fact they are stressed.

That is a direct response to stress and those fry will not survive.
They are not really spawning but eliminating spawn due to fright.
Mouthbrooders will also spit out fry and swim away.

I have to argue spawning even being an indication of a higher level of health.

No don't argue, I hate argueing. Only very healthy fish spawn.
Did you ever have fish spawning that had ich?
I never did and I have been spawning fish for quite a long time.
Then there is that problem as to why do my fish not get ich?
A few years ago here on RC I asked if anyone had an ich infected fish that they would like to put in my tank to test my theory. No one brought me a fish. My tank is an experiment and I will do anything to it if I think it will benefit the hobby or my education. :smokin:

If for some reason I put an ich infected fish in my tank it may live or die but the rest of the fish will not be infected. Why? I don't really know but I am talking about many years not weeks and many ich infected fish not one or two. I think it is the health of the fish but I am not the God of fish and I could be wrong. I hate it when I am wrong but I am up for theories. If just one tank does not have a problem with ich that means to me that there is a solution. :beer:
Any theories, I want to learn also.

 

[seahorsedreams]

Salt water fish? Fish can be in a hospital tank with meds and still be healthy.
They can be in a bathtub and be healthy

No, they were dying.... :-(. Yes, SW.

That is a direct response to stress and those fry will not survive.

Good point. They don't necessarily die, though. Depends on age at time of abortion.

No don't argue, I hate arguing.

To argue isn't to fight. For realz.

Did you ever have fish spawning that had ich?

No, not Ich.

I agree conditioning definitely helps. But when immunity drops, even a healthy fish can then fall victim.