dolphin slaughtering?

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Just curious, AquaKnight: when you write Rush/Beck do you mean that silly radio guy, and the sweaty-faced pop-eyed clown on Fox, that amusing mediocrity selling supermarket newspaper-level conspiracy stuff, much like the stories headlined "Octomom impregnated by Martian Rastafarians"?
That sounds like them. I probably think they're as ridiculous as you do, and listen to them as much as you, which is little to none. I am just glad there's a counterpoint to BSNBC and the like. Both sides can't get past themselves...
 
There are many more positions and opinions than just the two sides you mention. The issues are too significant, complex, and important.
 
Both sides can't get past themselves...
Yup. I'm afraid you're absolutely right. Each side's position has calcified, and it's becoming difficult for either side to react to new information showing the grey at the edges of their black-and-white divide. Business, politics, and even religion have been folded into what was originally an academic debate.

Now the two sides cling to hard-line positions, ignoring any flaws in their own reasoning and misconduct by people who agree with them, and pointing out every flaw and gaffe on the other side as proof of evil intent.

There are many more positions and opinions than just the two sides you mention. The issues are too significant, complex, and important.
Unfortunately, as people we like clarity and certainty. Our brains look for patterns and pigeonholes. Yes/No/Mixed/Unknown is a much harder set of categories to deal with than Yes/No (which easily adapts to Us/Them and Good/Bad).

If you want to rile people up, so they'll DO something (vote, start using a new product, etc.), it's more effective to tell them "We're right and they're wrong," than to say "Despite the valid points made by the other side, and the uncertainty of long-term predictions, we think that our approach will have better results overall."
 
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aqua, toyota and honda are actually the most popular brands of cars in america when i google (http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...ions-survey/overview/brand-perceptions-ov.htm). i drive a bicycle and ride the N-train so i'm out of my element here.

but still, i'm confused. i missed the day when small cars became uncool. isn't there still a wait list for gumdroppy smartcars? i've been listening to my dad wish forever that america would finally produce more responsible, smaller cars. he just bought a new big vehicle (my dad's a veteran so ONLY buys american) and there were unreal deals on giant cars since the dealerships couldn't unload them at all (he more than offsets the emissions with his home being the first with solar panels in the county, go dad!). does everyone in florida drive huge cars, drag race and compare bad mileage or something? wasn't the lion's share of the detroit problem that we weren't able to effectively compete/meet american demands for efficient vehicles?

i honestly always assumed people only drove huge cars because they HAD to; i never considered otherwise. similarly, the most popular dress size for american women is a whopping 14. popular by far, but reluctantly and unfortunately so.
i thought mostly only people who towed a boat, lived in the mountains or had large families (all of which being relatively unappealing or irresponsible decisions in their own rights) ended up owning these vehicles, despite all their disadvantages. environment aside, i'd rather be able to fit into more parking spots, wash less car area and pay less in gas. but maybe that's just me.

i would actually love a vote to allow the local government to put more restrictions on our freedoms with regard to environmental issues. my toes can handle it. i never met anyone who was skeptical of an environmental crisis caused by humans. i think it's horrible that nyc doesn't recycle (or rarely makes it at all possible). i want better incentives for (again, voted upon) responsible choices: higher taxes on foreign goods, higher fines for not recycling, plastic bag tax on purchases, teeny tiny american vehicle options, fast food's costs to be scaled commensurate with its calories, etc. but i like being forced to make good decisions, or at least offered incentives, because i get lazy if i'm allowed to be.
 
Paul's daughter, I understand that your last post was primarily aimed at AquaKnight407, but I just can't read parts of it without responding. Other parts... well, repeating them would just make things worse, so I won't.
i missed the day when small cars became uncool. isn't there still a wait list for gumdroppy smartcars?
There is. Some love them, some hate them. Typically, the "uncool" factor comes from the potential loss of choice, the fact that small cars with efficient engines sacrifice raw power and acceleration for light weight, the macho factor, and the perception (correct or not) that larger, heavier cars are safer in crashes.
does everyone in florida drive huge cars, drag race and compare bad mileage or something?
Typically, the further south you go, the bigger the average vehicle. In Texas, pick-ups and SUVs outnumber sedans by a wide margin.
wasn't the lion's share of the detroit problem that we weren't able to effectively compete/meet american demands for efficient vehicles?
That was part of it, especially when the price of gas was at its peak. The US-wide demand for larger or smaller cars probably scales pretty closely with the price of gas.
i honestly always assumed people only drove huge cars because they HAD to; i never considered otherwise.
Really? You're not familiar with the allure of a huge, loud, fast vehicle? Have you had a very limited exposure to American pop culture?
similarly, the most popular dress size for american women is a whopping 14. popular by far, but reluctantly and unfortunately so.
Most common? Yes. Most popular, as in culturally preferred/encouraged? No.
i thought mostly only people who towed a boat, lived in the mountains or had large families (all of which being relatively unappealing or irresponsible decisions in their own rights) ended up owning these vehicles, despite all their disadvantages.
I'd think very carefully before you call a large family a "relatively unappealing or irresponsible decision" in a public forum. Some people will not react well at all. Living in the mountains may be unappealing to you, but some people wouldn't choose to live anywhere else.
i never met anyone who was skeptical of an environmental crisis caused by humans.
Again, really? Never?
i want ... higher fines for not recycling
Higher? Most places, in the US or world-wide, have no fine at all for not recycling. I suppose something is higher than nothing, but wanting the fines to be raised implies that the fines exist to begin with.

Based on your pointing out the travesty/tragedy issue, I'm confident you'll allow me to bring up one of my own pet peeves: The word "I" is capitalized in English (with a special exception for e.e. cummings).
 
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Paul's daughter, I share your perspective about most things, but I question the perception of small cars as uncool. I think the coolest vehicles are two seater sports cars. What can compare to a MGB, or a vintage Speedster? A Triumph TR3, Austin Healeys, the Mercedes SL series, Alpha Romeos, etc. These sleek agile machines have qualities that big engined Detroit iron, monster trucks and muscle cars can never match: elegance, precision, and classic beauty. The attraction of powerful noisy machines is most pronounced in children, especially little boys. There are lots of very old children out there, and they scream very loudly if you try to take away their toys.

On another topic, you raised an interesting point about the similarity of pig and human meat. The Polynesian word describing humans intended for consumption was 'long pig'. A missionary told a Polynesian king that eating people was contrary to God's will. The king asked "then why did He make people out of meat?". A good point, I think.
 
aqua, toyota and honda are actually the most popular brands of cars in america when i google (http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...ions-survey/overview/brand-perceptions-ov.htm). i drive a bicycle and ride the N-train so i'm out of my element here.
http://www.bankrate.com/finance/auto/10-best-selling-cars-of-2009.aspx
http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html

I am talking about sales figures. Units sold per year. Your link is to something about 'brand perception.' Whatever that means. The first one is a little old, only the first half of 09. Toyota stopped selling cars in late 09'/early 2010 because of the recalled.

I am not saying small cars don't sell well. Look at the figures, they do darn well. I am just saying for myself I never wish to own one. No, per state outside of California, Florida is probably at the top in terms of numbers of healthy/attractive people, outside the sea of old folks.

I drive my rather large Cadillac because it has an awesome mix of everything. It goes like hell, I outran a 350Z the other day, has an luxurious interior, and with some upgrades I've done, drives pretty well too. I am unsure of how or why this turned into a Domestic vs. Import thing, esp. like the 5 old year type post above me :rolleyes:. The Domestic car brands lost their ground to the imports because they built inferior cars at the core market segments. Family sedans and subcompacts during the 80's and 90's. However today all the manufactures, even the Korean brands build good cars. You just pick your brand. There's little difference from a 2010 Malibu, to a 2010 Accord, to a 2010 Sonata.


In the end, my point again is that issue is with people telling other people what to do. Of large cars were unpopular, the manufactures would stop selling them. If you start having government control, where does it stop? If the government tells me I can't drive a certain car, what's stopping them from telling me how much power I can use? Or even how many miles a year I can drive my new econobox I was forced to buy? And still no one has pointed out the car emissions vs. aquarium life shipping issue...
 
That's more than enough political talk. It's time to give this thread a long time-out.
 
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