djbon
New member
Haha. Sure. Mine is a 3" pipe version.
Donovan's Nitrate Destroyer
- Thread starter djbon
- Start date
Haha. Sure. Mine is a 3" pipe version.
djbon
New member
I am very pleased with it. Has been running for more than a year with very minor issue (overflowing) but not a problem since the reactor in inside the sump. Last one happened recently when nutrients goes up due to the addition of anthias, i feed more to train them eating pellets. I feed more than before (i added a sun coral, purple gorgonian, another purple eyed goniopora and over well over 50 acros) and NO3 is hovering around 3 - 5ppm. best of all, maintenance free (only carbon dosing once a day, less than 5 seconds to do) and bacteria plankton to feed all my corals.
I induced overflowing a couple of times from sodium nitrate overdosed, accidentally did it once when running fallow last year and and intended overdosing a few weeks ago, just to get some idea how fast it bring down nitrate to my preferred level of below 5ppm.
Success. Forth try.
First try was a coil denitrator with bioballs inside - flow 100 ml/minute.
No change in nitrates in output after running two months.
Second try was a coil dentritrator with ceramic rings (that is still running in my tank)- flow ~60-100 ml per minute. I swapped out the bioballs for ceramic rings. thinking higher surface area. This has been running over a month- no change in nitrates in output.
Both of these two reactors were not feed carbon, though the system (500gal)
Third try a old eheim container ~6 liter volume filled with lava rock running in a 10 gal garbage pail with flow of approx 100 ml/ minute. I am feeding this 10 gal pail with 3 ml of vinegar a day. I feed not into the reactor but the can since the volume is so low.
This has been running close to a month-
No change in nitrate of output.
4th TRY SUCCESS in less that 2 weeks! 500 gal system with nitrates ~100 ppm on 3/18.
On 3/18 I set up what worked. This is a U made of 4 inch thin PVC input water (and NOPOX) on one end output on the other end. The reactor is filled with ~ 90% pumice like material (Growstone glass GS-1 soil aerator. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Growstone-9-l-GS-1-Hydro-Stones-Bag-GS1123/205445235). This stuff floats- so the top 10% is lavarock. ). The reactor is running at 100ml/min (more comments on this later). The reactor is being feed 5ml of NOPOX 10 times a day at 2-3 hr intervals using a DP-4 Jabao doser. This is what I use to dose my alk, mg, ca , and NOPOX. I simply diverted the same dose of NOPOX I was giving the tank 50 ml per day into the top of the reactor.
Input of water is from a Y from the pump that runs my carbon filter. I am regulating input volume with a fine control valve I used to use to regulate my calcium reactor- no longer do that.
Results. The first week the reactor ran steadily with the input I first dialed in. ~ 100ml/min. 3/24 NO3 output tested identical to tank.
3/26 I started noticing slowed flow and gloopy bacterial matts hanging off the output tube. I also started noticing growth of gloopy bacterial matts on structures in the sump around the output.
I had to adjust the input valve more open several times to keep flow up. I am looking at the system every day, morning and evening.
3/31 morning adjusted volume up since it was dripping instead of a stream
3/31 evening, volume is down to a drip- Test at this point.
Output is ZERO nitrates. The whole tank nitrates has gone from 100 down to 30 in 1 week. Consistent with this aglae growth in the tank is increasing. While this is counter intuitive, I think it is occuring because the bacteria in the reactor are using all of the NOPOX so that rather than the NOPOX driving competition for nutrients in the whole tank (and not that effectively), now the NOPOX is being used in the reactor.
And much more efficiently converting NO3 to N2 since I had been running 50 ml per day NOPOX for months in my tank without it reducing my nitrate levels. Just diverting the NOPOX to hit the reactor seems to be driving the reduction in nitrates. The parallele reactor running in the tank (try #2 ) does nothing to reduce nitrates.
First photo is device (try two in front, try 4 in back)
Second photo is test
left to right
water from 3-24 / tank water today / output try 4 / / 0 ppm / 20 ppm /50 ppm /100 ppm
First try was a coil denitrator with bioballs inside - flow 100 ml/minute.
No change in nitrates in output after running two months.
Second try was a coil dentritrator with ceramic rings (that is still running in my tank)- flow ~60-100 ml per minute. I swapped out the bioballs for ceramic rings. thinking higher surface area. This has been running over a month- no change in nitrates in output.
Both of these two reactors were not feed carbon, though the system (500gal)
Third try a old eheim container ~6 liter volume filled with lava rock running in a 10 gal garbage pail with flow of approx 100 ml/ minute. I am feeding this 10 gal pail with 3 ml of vinegar a day. I feed not into the reactor but the can since the volume is so low.
This has been running close to a month-
No change in nitrate of output.
4th TRY SUCCESS in less that 2 weeks! 500 gal system with nitrates ~100 ppm on 3/18.
On 3/18 I set up what worked. This is a U made of 4 inch thin PVC input water (and NOPOX) on one end output on the other end. The reactor is filled with ~ 90% pumice like material (Growstone glass GS-1 soil aerator. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Growstone-9-l-GS-1-Hydro-Stones-Bag-GS1123/205445235). This stuff floats- so the top 10% is lavarock. ). The reactor is running at 100ml/min (more comments on this later). The reactor is being feed 5ml of NOPOX 10 times a day at 2-3 hr intervals using a DP-4 Jabao doser. This is what I use to dose my alk, mg, ca , and NOPOX. I simply diverted the same dose of NOPOX I was giving the tank 50 ml per day into the top of the reactor.
Input of water is from a Y from the pump that runs my carbon filter. I am regulating input volume with a fine control valve I used to use to regulate my calcium reactor- no longer do that.
Results. The first week the reactor ran steadily with the input I first dialed in. ~ 100ml/min. 3/24 NO3 output tested identical to tank.
3/26 I started noticing slowed flow and gloopy bacterial matts hanging off the output tube. I also started noticing growth of gloopy bacterial matts on structures in the sump around the output.
I had to adjust the input valve more open several times to keep flow up. I am looking at the system every day, morning and evening.
3/31 morning adjusted volume up since it was dripping instead of a stream
3/31 evening, volume is down to a drip- Test at this point.
Output is ZERO nitrates. The whole tank nitrates has gone from 100 down to 30 in 1 week. Consistent with this aglae growth in the tank is increasing. While this is counter intuitive, I think it is occuring because the bacteria in the reactor are using all of the NOPOX so that rather than the NOPOX driving competition for nutrients in the whole tank (and not that effectively), now the NOPOX is being used in the reactor.
And much more efficiently converting NO3 to N2 since I had been running 50 ml per day NOPOX for months in my tank without it reducing my nitrate levels. Just diverting the NOPOX to hit the reactor seems to be driving the reduction in nitrates. The parallele reactor running in the tank (try #2 ) does nothing to reduce nitrates.
First photo is device (try two in front, try 4 in back)
Second photo is test
left to right
water from 3-24 / tank water today / output try 4 / / 0 ppm / 20 ppm /50 ppm /100 ppm
Attachments
djbon
New member
I know this design will work if done properly. Congrats nematode. As for the algae, keep your nitrate somewhere around 10ppm, and dose some bacteria at main display once a week. I believe po4 start leaching out from rocks. You need some no3 in water column to promote po4 uptake along with no3 usage. Once algae is gone, you can adjust your nopox or reactor outflow to set your no3 running level.
blackthunda77
New member
This is encouraging as I'm starting my build soon as well.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk
djbon
New member
Algae starts growing when my nitrate is almost to zero (4th week). After reading of 16 no3 to 1 po4 uptake ratio, I decreased my vodka and let my no3 leveled at 10ppm. Dosed some bacteria in my DT. Algae was gone after after 2 months. You can run GFO reactor if you have one. I didn't because I don't have space, and I don't have extra cash to buy another reactor.
I am not concerned about algae growth. It is just an increase in algae on my glass. I am sure it will resolve when nitrates have lowered further in the tank- which should happen relatively quickly if things proceed as current.
How much do you reduce your feeding of vodka when nitrates have lowered
3 fold, 5 fold.
How much do you reduce your feeding of vodka when nitrates have lowered
3 fold, 5 fold.
djbon
New member
I reduced vodka from 5ml to 3ml and increased my flow a bit as well. Vodka reduced to 2ml when ich strikes, killed all fishes. When running fallow for 2 months, I have to dose sodium nitrate to bring down po4. When I started adding fish, dosing and flow was adjusted accordingly. Now i have foxface, blue hippo, scopas tang, 2 wrasses, 6 anthiases, watchman blenny, yellow tail goby, saddle back nemo and mandarin. Back to 5ml special blend carbon source. My colored led channel (4 reds, 4 pinks, 4 greens, 4 daylight, 4 violets and 4 warm whites 85% intensity full 5 hours daily) does not promote algae growth, maybe a little to feed my fishes.
ReefKeeper64
Wanna be a reefkeeper
Congrats on your success in bringing down nitrates! Sounds like your regimen started paying off after you increased the surface area for your bacteria to grow on. Never even heard of Growstone before and a search on RC shows up goose eggs. It sounds a lot like Siporax, only far less expensive per liter and it floats! What else were you going to mention about growstones?
I was looking for pumice on line because the price of Matrix is basically "highway robbery" in my opinion.
I came upon this stuff, which one could order through home depot that was totally made of glass (and thus clearly safe for an aquarium).
I had no idea it floated. I just ordered it on a lark. The fact that it floats indicates it is partially closed cell, but it does have a lot of surface area and sucks up a lot of water. Whether this works better or worse than matrix. Have no idea. But, given that putting approximately 7 liters of this stuff into a container and running water a NOPOX through it lowered my nitrates in my 500 gallon system from 100 ppm to 30 ppm within 13 days without innoculating with any special bacterium, it seems relatively effective as a substrate - formally, it could be the lava rock on each end that is weighing down the pumice that could be doing the work.
Note that I am using potentially up to 10 X the carbon dosing that dbjon is.
My recipe for nopox is 700 ml vinegar, 300 ml 40 proof cheap vodka. Bdjon
is using some secret mix. If it is 100% vodka it would be 2.3 times more potent than NOPOX. and I guess if he is dissolving sugar or some other carbon source into his liquid it could be even more potent. I am also dosing 5ml automatically every 2 to 3 hours (total of 10 times a day) and this could improve efficiency. If one doses all at once and the bacteria can't use the dose in the time it takes to exit the reactor, then the NOPOX will be used by bacteria in the tank, not the reactor.
I came upon this stuff, which one could order through home depot that was totally made of glass (and thus clearly safe for an aquarium).
I had no idea it floated. I just ordered it on a lark. The fact that it floats indicates it is partially closed cell, but it does have a lot of surface area and sucks up a lot of water. Whether this works better or worse than matrix. Have no idea. But, given that putting approximately 7 liters of this stuff into a container and running water a NOPOX through it lowered my nitrates in my 500 gallon system from 100 ppm to 30 ppm within 13 days without innoculating with any special bacterium, it seems relatively effective as a substrate - formally, it could be the lava rock on each end that is weighing down the pumice that could be doing the work.
Note that I am using potentially up to 10 X the carbon dosing that dbjon is.
My recipe for nopox is 700 ml vinegar, 300 ml 40 proof cheap vodka. Bdjon
is using some secret mix. If it is 100% vodka it would be 2.3 times more potent than NOPOX. and I guess if he is dissolving sugar or some other carbon source into his liquid it could be even more potent. I am also dosing 5ml automatically every 2 to 3 hours (total of 10 times a day) and this could improve efficiency. If one doses all at once and the bacteria can't use the dose in the time it takes to exit the reactor, then the NOPOX will be used by bacteria in the tank, not the reactor.
djbon
New member
Yup, you got it right about the VSV composition. The only difference is i added 2 more elements in it to increase nutrient uptake. So far so good. You didn't dose bacteria in the reactor?. I am surprised it worked faster than I thought. My last built for a friend matured in 2 weeks with mb7 dosing. He almost stripped his no3 to zero, but now all is fine.
djbon
New member
I am not sure about your bio load, but 500G is huge!. Just want to share my method of testing bacteria in the reactor... Overdosing carbon for a day or two. Reduced output flow is a good indication of healthy bacteria population. This reactor is producing extra food for corals as well. No target feeding for my sun coral, gorgonian and flower pot corals. I have hundreds of tube worms popping everywhere. Please share if you start seeing bacteria plankton in your tank.
system consists of 2 tank and a sump
Load
150 has a large powder blue, foxface, melanus wrasse, anthias, abluethroat trigger and a coral beauty.
260 has 3 yellow damsels, yellow tang, sailfin tang, vlamingi tang (1 foot long)- a pig, christmas wrasse, yellow headed sleeper goby, sailfin blenny, 3 clowns.
soft corals xenia and xoas and muchrooms,
100 gallon sump has two green spotter puffers puffer fish and a large amount of chaetomorpha.
The system used to have hard corals, but now all my hard corals are in my other system since the nitrates were basically killing the acros, montis, horn coral, etc. The onlything that sort of tolerated it was some candy cane corals.
I've been fighting high nitrates without luck for a year, and now I should be able to go back to putting corals in the system.
Surprsingly and still very puzzling to me, the other system ~100 gals has a equivelant, if not higher, relative bioload, but in that system I have never developed any detectible nitrates or phosphates. Perhaps a few of pieces of live rock in the one tank have the perfect porosity to do all the denitrification? Who knows.
It could also be that my skimmer in the large system was not doing the job.
Load
150 has a large powder blue, foxface, melanus wrasse, anthias, abluethroat trigger and a coral beauty.
260 has 3 yellow damsels, yellow tang, sailfin tang, vlamingi tang (1 foot long)- a pig, christmas wrasse, yellow headed sleeper goby, sailfin blenny, 3 clowns.
soft corals xenia and xoas and muchrooms,
100 gallon sump has two green spotter puffers puffer fish and a large amount of chaetomorpha.
The system used to have hard corals, but now all my hard corals are in my other system since the nitrates were basically killing the acros, montis, horn coral, etc. The onlything that sort of tolerated it was some candy cane corals.
I've been fighting high nitrates without luck for a year, and now I should be able to go back to putting corals in the system.
Surprsingly and still very puzzling to me, the other system ~100 gals has a equivelant, if not higher, relative bioload, but in that system I have never developed any detectible nitrates or phosphates. Perhaps a few of pieces of live rock in the one tank have the perfect porosity to do all the denitrification? Who knows.
It could also be that my skimmer in the large system was not doing the job.
ReefKeeper64
Wanna be a reefkeeper
Sitting on the sidelines, I would sum the nitrate destroyer as having a reaction chamber (reactor) that creates an optimal environment for denitrifying bacteria, which consume nitrate. Couple that with a good steady carbon source and you have a great solution for long term nitrate and PO4 control.
Denitrifying Bacteria: This is the term used for a range of anaerobic bacteria that feed off nitrate and consume the oxygen within and release nitrogen gas. These work in conditions with little to no free oxygen in the water so they consume nitrates.
What about the maintenance aspect of all that bacterial goop you are having to deal growing inside your reactor? How are you going to maintain the reactor long term?
ReefKeeper64
Wanna be a reefkeeper
As I re-read my last post, I could have worded it better.
What I meant to say by "sitting on the sidelines", is that I moved to a new home 3 years ago and I'm just now getting my system back together with a new build. As part of the new build I'm considering a reactor like what you are using or perhaps a siporax box and vinegar. Looking for suggestions, pros & cons that you folks might see between the two approaches. Not meaning to derail your thread here.
Thanks!
What I meant to say by "sitting on the sidelines", is that I moved to a new home 3 years ago and I'm just now getting my system back together with a new build. As part of the new build I'm considering a reactor like what you are using or perhaps a siporax box and vinegar. Looking for suggestions, pros & cons that you folks might see between the two approaches. Not meaning to derail your thread here.
Thanks!
djbon
New member
Refkeeper64, I have been running my reactor for more than a year. No maintenance so far. Reactor is sealed tight, I mean all fittings are cemented. I have clogging incident a few times but cleared up in two or three days simply by stopping carbon. As long as the inlet water are filtered (socks) it shouldn't be covered by detritus. Some bacteria might eat detritus, but I won't take the chance. You can build a backwash system if you want to clear up clogging as well. I have one unit with backwash capability and had used it twice due to mud build up (wild live rock stocking tank plumbed with lps and anemone holding tanks).
djbon
New member
The beauty of my design is you have complete control over flow and measurable element on both inlet and outlet. Space saving, no heat (no light needed), no extra pump required (mine uses mini fountain pump rated 3w), no splashing or slat creep, very cheap to maintain (any carbon source will do). No cyano and bacteria plankton are a plus.
my plan is to greatly reduce/stop dosing any carbon to the reactor after nitrates are under control. and then watch if nitrates go up, and if they do I will start dosing small amounts of carbon until I control nitrates.
Ideally I would like to have a system where I don't need to dose carbon, but where I have an established denitrifying system that can denitrif the small volumes of water i push through the system.
But this is all theory. We will see how it plays out in practice.
The reason I think it is possible, Is that my other system has significant bioloads yet no no3 po4 problem 12 fish, lots of corals (mostly SPS and LPS). I feed heavily in that tank but can't raise nitrates or phosphates to detectable no matter what I do.
I think that system is in an equilibrium where there is an established "colony" of denitrifying bacteria that keep nitrates (And in turn phosphates) under control.
I hope to shift my large system to that equilibrium by using the djbon denitrifier to reduce nitrates, and then a have it be the source that keeps nitrates under control
Ideally I would like to have a system where I don't need to dose carbon, but where I have an established denitrifying system that can denitrif the small volumes of water i push through the system.
But this is all theory. We will see how it plays out in practice.
The reason I think it is possible, Is that my other system has significant bioloads yet no no3 po4 problem 12 fish, lots of corals (mostly SPS and LPS). I feed heavily in that tank but can't raise nitrates or phosphates to detectable no matter what I do.
I think that system is in an equilibrium where there is an established "colony" of denitrifying bacteria that keep nitrates (And in turn phosphates) under control.
I hope to shift my large system to that equilibrium by using the djbon denitrifier to reduce nitrates, and then a have it be the source that keeps nitrates under control
