Don't judge lol

[Paul B]

and I know I will probably get ripped for this

You probably will so I am staying away from this one especially because I don't quarantine.
Oh no, I didn't say that outloud, did I?

OK, forget I said that. Have a great day :beer:

 

[snorvich]

You probably will so I am staying away from this one especially because I don't quarantine.
Oh no, I didn't say that outloud, did I?

OK, forget I said that. Have a great day :beer:

So, in effect, your are advocating the average aquarist not to quarantine???? You have a great day too!

 

[Paul B]

your are advocating the average aquarist not to quarantine????

Of course not, I said, "I don't quarantine". I have a different method. I always say that new or "average" as you say aquarists should quarantine or you will most likely lose all of your fish. But before I get in too much trouble.
I will leave this thread alone.

 

[jcmjoe]

So why then do we put a fish in a tank with no sand, no rock, but give it a bare tank with some PVC pipe? PVC pipe is not natural in any way. There is no rock or sand or anything that a fish might naturally see in the ocean. So could this not stress a fish out even more?


I believe the bare bottom is used in case you have to treat with copper it will be much easier to keep at a therapeutic level since most substrates and rocks will absorb it.

 

[snorvich]

So why then do we put a fish in a tank with no sand, no rock, but give it a bare tank with some PVC pipe? PVC pipe is not natural in any way. There is no rock or sand or anything that a fish might naturally see in the ocean. So could this not stress a fish out even more?


I believe the bare bottom is used in case you have to treat with copper it will be much easier to keep at a therapeutic level since most substrates and rocks will absorb it.

That is correct but not complete. Some phases of the parasites attempt to attach to a surface of the aquarium, and with no substrate or live rock, that attempt will fail.

 

[b0bab0ey]

Of course not, I said, "I don't quarantine". I have a different method. I always say that new or "average" as you say aquarists should quarantine or you will most likely lose all of your fish. But before I get in too much trouble.
I will leave this thread alone.

Personally, I would love to hear more about your method. In the interest of having an open discussion. Feel free to PM me if you don't feel comfortable saying it here.

 

[Jeremy Blaze]

And when you have people not quarantining properly, it hurts the reputation of the procedure. Such as keeping Damsels in the Quarantine tank, all the time, or adding multiple fish week after week in the quarantine tank. Then wonder why they are still having problems.

 

[btkrausen]

And when you have people not quarantining properly, it hurts the reputation of the procedure. Such as keeping Damsels in the Quarantine tank, all the time, or adding multiple fish week after week in the quarantine tank. Then wonder why they are still having problems.

I'm glad I was able to inspire you with something to write about.

 

[Jeremy Blaze]

I'm glad I was able to inspire you with something to write about.

Never mentioned you. Have made several other posts in the last couple days. Sorry if I upset you this much.

 

[Jeremy Blaze]

So why then do we put a fish in a tank with no sand, no rock, but give it a bare tank with some PVC pipe? PVC pipe is not natural in any way. There is no rock or sand or anything that a fish might naturally see in the ocean. So could this not stress a fish out even more?


I believe the bare bottom is used in case you have to treat with copper it will be much easier to keep at a therapeutic level since most substrates and rocks will absorb it.

Also for internal parasites. If you treat the fish, they will passthe parasite out of the system, but they will end up on the bottom of the tank, where the fish will often then re ingest it. With a bare bottom, you can see it, and syphon out, hopefully.

 

[btkrausen]

Ha, I guess I should have put a smiley face at the end.

Sorry, having a crappy day

 

[Jeremy Blaze]

I hope your smiling Quiet frankly I have been a bit concerned as to why you seemed so upset with my comments.
You missed a good meeting, we didn't even break any tanks drilling them.

 

[reeferstace]

I only have a pair of clownfish, and I got them from a friend, and his tank is awesome, and the fish have been fine. but it is just a "theory". Major purchases will be quarantined, because I know that quarantine works, but again it is just a theory on the way we do things.

Scientific theories are grounded in empirical research. Your viewpoint is not a theory, it's an assumption. Most veteran fishkeepers do not make this same assumption.

The advantages to having a quarantine protocol far outweigh any disadvantages.

Your fish deserve every chance at having healthy lives.

 

[b0bab0ey]

Scientific theories are grounded in empirical research.

I've been in this hobby 30+ years now, and I'm rediscovering that there are still very few facts circulating in the hobby today. 99% of everything you read/hear is just somebody's theory/opinion. Maybe the key to success in this hobby is finding the "theory" that works best for you.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I've been in this hobby 30+ years now, and I'm rediscovering that there are still very few facts circulating in the hobby today. 99% of everything you read/hear is just somebody's theory/opinion. Maybe the key to success in this hobby is finding the "theory" that works best for you.

A lot of truth in this statement; a lot depends on the source of the information. No matter what the subject; "100 % of the time'' is a tough statement to make. Much of the time anyway, there are exceptions.

 

[Jeremy Blaze]

87% of the time quarintine works 100% of the time.

 

[MrTuskfish]

87% of the time quarintine works 100% of the time.

Yeah, but this is leap-year and that screws everything up.

 

[b0bab0ey]

87% of the time quarintine works 100% of the time.

I think there is still much to learn about Crypto and other fish diseases. Who knows how many species, subspecies, mutations, etc. there are, and how much they differ from one another. If Crypto were a human affliction there would be financial incentive to find a cure or at least better treatments. By comparison, there's not much money to be made in the discovery of new fish meds. Which is why 30+ years later copper, a poison not an actual medicine, is still the #1 way we treat Crypto. With mixed results IMO. We also don't have a "Fish FDA" to monitor companies who put out "reef safe" Crypto meds, knowing full well they don't work. At least with humans the FDA requires scientific research/clinical trials before a med can be approved for sale. I wonder how it works with dogs & cats. Cause IME it's like the wild, wild west out there when it comes to fish medications.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I think there is still much to learn about Crypto and other fish diseases. Who knows how many species, subspecies, mutations, etc. there are, and how much they differ from one another. If Crypto were a human affliction there would be financial incentive to find a cure or at least better treatments. By comparison, there's not much money to be made in the discovery of new fish meds. Which is why 30+ years later copper, a poison not an actual medicine, is still the #1 way we treat Crypto. With mixed results IMO. We also don't have a "Fish FDA" to monitor companies who put out "reef safe" Crypto meds, knowing full well they don't work. At least with humans the FDA requires scientific research/clinical trials before a med can be approved for sale. I wonder how it works with dogs & cats. Cause IME it's like the wild, wild west out there when it comes to fish medications.

Now that you mention dogs: the good flea meds ( Frontline, etc.) seem to be almost useless now. I have a lot of conversations with fellow dog owners (only, in person) that are oddly similar to RC forum ich discussions. My memory is damn good for my age; ich just wasn't this big a deal 10-15 years ago. Folks didn't try to manage it then either, they wiped it out; at least in my hobbyist crowd. Velvet was the big worry. I still think a lot of ich reported now is really velvet. Especially when quick and multiple fish losses.

 

[sandwi54]

Now that you mention dogs: the good flea meds ( Frontline, etc.) seem to be almost useless now. I have a lot of conversations with fellow dog owners (only, in person) that are oddly similar to RC forum ich discussions. My memory is damn good for my age; ich just wasn't this big a deal 10-15 years ago. Folks didn't try to manage it then either, they wiped it out; at least in my hobbyist crowd. Velvet was the big worry. I still think a lot of ich reported now is really velvet. Especially when quick and multiple fish losses.

I think part of the reason ich SEEMS to be more rampant nowadays is that there are way more people entering the hobby in this past decade. Before saltwater keeping was deemed difficult as well as expensive. The technology boom in the 90's enabled more innovations and better equipment, as well as lower prices. What happens when things get good and cheap? More people buy them.

A lot of people enter this hobby simply because they think a saltwater tank looks "cool." They don't know what it involves nor do they truly have an interest in the welfare of the fish. they don't necessarily provide the best environment for the fish (overstocking, lack of maintenance, etc.), and when disease happens (especially without QT), they take one stab at treating for it, fails, and quits the hobby out of frustration. This results in lots of cheap equipment on craigslist, like you always say :spin1:

Ich seems more of an issue because it's being talked about more.