Dosing vitamin C?

[FiReBReTHa]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11804615#post11804615 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Engine 7
Why would you want to "alleviate the amount of VC concentration in the tank"?
I am sure sure you read the 36 page thread on how to use it, right?

The whole point of giving everything a "break" like I was mentioning in my above post.


just saying how it works in the human body for body building. / weight loss.

 

[Jeff]

Right, but this is a totally different thing in saltwater. Why not try the established/proven way to dose at whatever ppm you feel is safe and them modify to your needs. In that thread we have discussed dosages. If the vitamin C only lasts in saltwater 8 hours what is the harm? I havent seen any.

 

[FiReBReTHa]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11804659#post11804659 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Engine 7
Right, but this is a totally different thing in saltwater. Why not try the established/proven way to dose at whatever ppm you feel is safe and them modify to your needs. In that thread we have discussed dosages. If the vitamin C only lasts in saltwater 8 hours what is the harm? I havent seen any.

its not the issue of harm, its the issue of success.

I feel I can yield stronger results via method of cycling in comparison to a sustained level of VC.

I will be guinea pig with this method.


Its time for a pepsi challenge

 

[Jeff]

Cool Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[FiReBReTHa]

Definitely,

to put it in a way so other people can understand it.

coffee is great for keeping you stimulated. over time, you develope resistence to the amount that you keep taking,

1 cup every day.

so you decide to take a break from it.

a week and a half later you have a cup and you are wired for hours. because you havent had caffeine in a while and lost that "tolerance" for it.

 

[sellout007]

I get what your saying, and I think its a viable option and definitely worth trying out. To compare, you should try dosing both ways for X amount of months, then compare your results and let us know.

 

[ReefKeepersCorner]

Flinstones' chewables are great too. :lol: Seriously though, I tried it before it became the latest trend and I did not see any benefits. I would say I treated for about 5-6 months.... I guess I fall into the 2% class...

 

[renisel]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11804716#post11804716 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FiReBReTHa
Definitely,

to put it in a way so other people can understand it.

coffee is great for keeping you stimulated. over time, you develope resistence to the amount that you keep taking,

1 cup every day.

so you decide to take a break from it.

a week and a half later you have a cup and you are wired for hours. because you havent had caffeine in a while and lost that "tolerance" for it.

Once you've built up a tolerance to coffee (or pretty much anything else), you are pretty much guaranteed a period of unwanted withdrawal effects--and I don't think that's something you want for your reef. Fortunately, I don't think you build up a tolerance to vitamin C. Your body uses what it needs, and expels the rest in your urine.

In an aquarium, I think using it intermittiently might be better for the sake of guarding against gradually building it up to toxic levels (unless someone has definitively demonstrated that it does break down on its own into benign compounds in the tank water). But I don't think it would work in a manner analgous to having a cup of coffee after avoiding caffeine for a week.

 

[sellout007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11805314#post11805314 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 444reefkeeper
Flinstones' chewables are great too. :lol: Seriously though, I tried it before it became the latest trend and I did not see any benefits. I would say I treated for about 5-6 months.... I guess I fall into the 2% class...

There are people who have said they don't see many results. I personally haven't seen any results in the wya of my corals per say. But I absolutely have seen a difference with my fish. My purple tang was covered with Ich, LLE and a recieding tail for a month before I started VC. I had tried a few different menthods to try and get rid of it without having to pull the fish out and treat it. I added the VC and within a week the ICH was pretty much not visible. Within 2 weeks the LLE was completely gone and the tail had grown full and the ICH was not visible at all.

Is it possible that all those things just decided to up and cure themselves at the same time I started dosing VC, sure. But its a long shot.

 

[Jeff]

The ich is still in your tank Dan. The vitamin C didnt cure it. You just cant see it. Hypo and copper are the only mainstream viable cures.
I had a slight breakout a few months ago so i am sure that I have it in my tank as well. I havent seen a white spot since then but I know its still in there.

 

[sellout007]

Well, IF and thats a big IF, the ich doesn't attatch to a fish in I belive 2 weeks it goes through its life cycle. And as far as I remeber (could be completely wrong) the ich wont reproduce if it doesn't attatch to fish, within a month they should *in theory* all die off.


Like I said, BIG if. *lol*

 

[Jeff]

Thats a good point I never thaught of. I think it's 8 weeks without a fish host though. Wolf Pup (Jon) just went through a major ich outbreak and seperated his last fish from its tank for 8 weeks while doing hypo.
Anyway, if I havent seen the ich does that mean its gone after a certain period of time? Hmmmm....

 

[FiReBReTHa]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11805110#post11805110 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sellout007
I get what your saying, and I think its a viable option and definitely worth trying out. To compare, you should try dosing both ways for X amount of months, then compare your results and let us know.

I guess your right....


I Should Buy another tank






somewhat true about the withdrawl issues, thats a small percentage of dependcy rather than the body just not having it as a supplmentation of a natural substance.

plus, caffeine does act different than nutrients

 

[Pufferpunk]

No wonder I can't drink coffee just every once in a while... It makes me crazy!

 

[ReefKeepersCorner]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11805778#post11805778 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Engine 7
Thats a good point I never thaught of. I think it's 8 weeks without a fish host though. Wolf Pup (Jon) just went through a major ich outbreak and seperated his last fish from its tank for 8 weeks while doing hypo.
Anyway, if I havent seen the ich does that mean its gone after a certain period of time? Hmmmm....

I heard 8 weeks as well. I know quite a few guys that have pulled and treated the fish for 8+ weeks, leaving the tank fishless only to get ick again after reintroduced into the system...

 

[sellout007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11805778#post11805778 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Engine 7
Thats a good point I never thaught of. I think it's 8 weeks without a fish host though. Wolf Pup (Jon) just went through a major ich outbreak and seperated his last fish from its tank for 8 weeks while doing hypo.
Anyway, if I havent seen the ich does that mean its gone after a certain period of time? Hmmmm....

Well like I said, in *theory* it should work. haha

But I honestly don't know if there is still Ich on the animal. It could very well still be on the animals gills, or somewhere I cant really see. So who knows.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11805848#post11805848 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FiReBReTHa
I guess your right....


I Should Buy another tank

NOW your thinking like a professional reefer!

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11806760#post11806760 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 444reefkeeper
I heard 8 weeks as well. I know quite a few guys that have pulled and treated the fish for 8+ weeks, leaving the tank fishless only to get ick again after reintroduced into the system...

Like I said, just in theory!

 

[wolf pup]

Prior to this post I have not hear of any anecdotal evidence prior to this that VC cures ich. I do not doubt that it may improve overall fish health and that aids a fish in coping with an ifection but ich only has two cures. (well three if you count death of the host)

There are a few peer reviewed scientific articles on Ich mentioned in the "fish disease" forum. Ich does have a life cycle but you will only see multiple spots when the fish is "infested." Think of it like the difference between passing a sniffle around and pneumonic plague. Ich has been shown to regularly exist in tanks by completing its cycle on the gills or other areas of the fish. The reproduction rate is something like 1000:1 so one little spot that goes unnoticed will easily keep the tank sick. With all that said...there is no reason a tank cannot remain "healthy" even with ich present in it. back to the sniffle anology, the entire city of chicago doesn't drop dead just because one rider of the el has a cold. However, I have a smaller size city so I decided to "cure" my tank. It took some time but with continued proper QT procedures I will never see an ich spot again.

444 - as far as those who pulled and treated fish I would be curious of their methods and if they were working against velvet also. Copper dosing is 100% effective from the research IF kept within a narrow theraputic range. Hypo treatments of 1.009 for 2 weeks have so far yeilded good success rates but it needs to be measured with a properly calibrated refactometer. Also cross-contanimation of infected tank materials with the hospital tank will cause re-infection. I am not doubting that people have "treated" ich only to have it return. I treated with copper my first go around and apparently did not hold the levels perfect for long enough so I did not cure the infection. Copper can be absorbed by filter material within a hospital tank changing its concentration. This last time I used hypo and I am literally staking my tanks health on having been successful. My belief is that much like disease treatment in humans, failure is often due to unitentional non-compliance.

my .02 on VC is that I am really curious if it is a direct affect on the health of the tank or if it is altering the chemistry of the water in a fashion that the livestock prefers. Almost a redox sort of situation perhaps? I follow the VC thread that pufferpunk has going and it is truely interesting.

 

[Pufferpunk]

There are more scientific-based comments towards the end of the thread, in addition to what jdieck has beeen posting. I have a Dr/friend that will be reading the entire thread & helping me to put together some kind of composite notes on the entire thing.

 

[sellout007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11808804#post11808804 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wolf pup
Prior to this post I have not hear of any anecdotal evidence prior to this that VC cures ich. I do not doubt that it may improve overall fish health and that aids a fish in coping with an ifection but ich only has two cures. (well three if you count death of the host)

There are a few peer reviewed scientific articles on Ich mentioned in the "fish disease" forum. Ich does have a life cycle but you will only see multiple spots when the fish is "infested." Think of it like the difference between passing a sniffle around and pneumonic plague. Ich has been shown to regularly exist in tanks by completing its cycle on the gills or other areas of the fish. The reproduction rate is something like 1000:1 so one little spot that goes unnoticed will easily keep the tank sick. With all that said...there is no reason a tank cannot remain "healthy" even with ich present in it. back to the sniffle anology, the entire city of chicago doesn't drop dead just because one rider of the el has a cold. However, I have a smaller size city so I decided to "cure" my tank. It took some time but with continued proper QT procedures I will never see an ich spot again.

This is exactly what I had figured was happening. Visual signs of Ich were not present, but in the gills would be the Ich. I had figured the VC to not *cure* Ich, but to boost the fish's immune system *maybe a slime coat) to help combat the Ich and keep it in check, so to speak.

 

[jrodiw]

I know first hand that Kent Vitamin C works to help aid in a fishes health when Lateral Line Disease take ahold of your fish.
My daughter has a hippo tang she had since we got into this hobby. it had ich from the LFS I bought it from. Well after doing a copper treatment on the fish, I noticed that the Hippo had come down with LLD. So I read through a lot of threads trying to find a cure for my daughters favorite fish. (Can't let it die and have a very sad little girl on my hands) So I found a long thread on how VC helps with the health of you fish in fighting diseases. So I gave it a try and after 2 1/2 yrs the hippo is still alive and swimming, but it still has the same amount of LLD it did when I started the treatment. I treat all my tanks with VC about every 3 days with no ill affects.
Just a story I thought I would share.