drain gurgling!

[monotreme_man]

my family (including me) are disconcerted at the plumbing noise
from our 200gal tank. the sump is 8-10ft below the tank
(in the basement). we have a single 1in drain and a single 1in
return from the sump (powered by a panworld 150).

i started with a durso standpipe with modest success. i could
never get it really silent, but it was better than an open drain.
i then tried the hofer gurgle buster, which worked brilliantly.
zero noise at the drain.

but there was still a lot of noise. it turns out it was coming
from the water flow through the pipes leading to the sump.
is there a way to mitigate this noise?

 

[turretdr]

Wrap the pipes in plumbing insulation.

 

[nikon187]

Is it all hard pvc or flex pvc? Flex will absorb the vibrations much better than hard pipe will. You could also add some 45's to help smooth out the transitions in the drains.

 

[joemama65]

I used insulation to wrap my pipes it worked a little but, but ive learned to live with it, but next tank i would defenitly do it differently.

 

[Aquarist007]

I had the same problem--here is an easy fix:

Add a 12 inch piece of plastic tubing on your return line somewhere. The plasic will adsorb or break up the travel of the noise up the rigid pipe
Mine is attached to the top of the pump in the picture--straight pipe is after that

 

[monotreme_man]

plumbing insulation will work?
you mean the black sealed cell foam stuff?

the plumbing is all hard sched 40 stuff; will flexible make that much difference?
it seems like the noise is turbulence in the water flow. will flexible pipe mitigate that?

 

[monotreme_man]

capn,

i do already have some flex betwixt pump and teh rigid part of teh return line.
(i actually have about 6 feet of it for various reasons.)

the noise is not vibrational (as in teh pipe oscillating), but rather just the
turbulent flow of water. and if i look at the water dumping into the sump,
it is quite turbulent; it isn't a clean smooth pour.

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14693706#post14693706 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by monotreme_man
plumbing insulation will work?
you mean the black sealed cell foam stuff?

the plumbing is all hard sched 40 stuff; will flexible make that much difference?
it seems like the noise is turbulence in the water flow. will flexible pipe mitigate that?

its only 12 inches of plastic over 8 feet of pvc--it did the job for me with no loss of support in the 8 foot section.

Turbulence in the water flow-----is the pump too powerfull for the sump---is it sucking the level in the sump too low?
This can be controlled by adding a ball valve on the return line between the pump and the tank.
the flow through the sump and the tank and sump level are controlled by this valve.
The drain flow is a product of gravity---eg a one inch return gives you a max flow of 600 gph.

 

[monotreme_man]

capn,

that is a thought. the sump is not being sucked too low; the water level
remains constant so drain == return. but is that enough? will a particular
pipe size only support a range of silent flow rates? you said, and i've sen it
elsewhere, that 1in plumbing will only gravity drain 600gph. but can it do that
quietly? or is the quiet limit only 500 (or whatever)?

i can do the experiments now easily (i am still running just ro/di until
i get these major issues dealt with), so i can try two experiments:

1) putting a ball valve on the return (and take off the gurgle buster)
and seeing what rate is silent.

2) limiting teh pump output to see if less flow through teh current setup
can be quiet.

is there anything else i should try?

 

[Hdhuntr01]

If you have a predrilled tank with an internal overflow box, here is a suggestion. I had the same issue and here is my solution. I removed the PVC pipe from inside the overflow and installed a gate valve on the overflow line. I adjusted the amount of flow with the gate valve so I have about 6" filled in the overflow above the bulkhead. Now there is absolutely no air going down my overflow line, hence no bubbles, hence no noise. It does take some adjusting to get it set right but once set it stays where it should be unless you make other adjustments to the amount of flow on your return line.

 

[alextheromanian]

i found out i couldnt get rid of all that noise until i added a belly in the drain...in your case you can add two. by belly i mean a loop sorta like what you have in under your sink. pvc is low density so it'll let alot of noise travel.

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14693915#post14693915 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Hdhuntr01
If you have a predrilled tank with an internal overflow box, here is a suggestion. I had the same issue and here is my solution. I removed the PVC pipe from inside the overflow and installed a gate valve on the overflow line. I adjusted the amount of flow with the gate valve so I have about 6" filled in the overflow above the bulkhead. Now there is absolutely no air going down my overflow line, hence no bubbles, hence no noise. It does take some adjusting to get it set right but once set it stays where it should be unless you make other adjustments to the amount of flow on your return line.

[welcome]

I can follow what you have done but can't the original poster accomplish the same thing here by raising the durso in the internal overflow box so there is less difference in the levels of the overflow and the tank surface?

 

[monotreme_man]

capn,

how does changing the relative level of water between tank and inside the overflow
affect the flow rate through the drain? i've been playing with this and the only effect
i can see is the noise caused by the water cascading over the overflow varies. but otherwise
it seems to have no effect (the potential energy of teh water is only changing by an inch or so
out of a total height of 12 feet or so).

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14695996#post14695996 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by monotreme_man
capn,

how does changing the relative level of water between tank and inside the overflow
affect the flow rate through the drain? i've been playing with this and the only effect
i can see is the noise caused by the water cascading over the overflow varies. but otherwise
it seems to have no effect (the potential energy of teh water is only changing by an inch or so
out of a total height of 12 feet or so).

you are correct it doesn't--but it stops the gurgling of the water at that point--which I believe is not your problem---I was just responding to the other post.
One thing you could check is on the top of the durso there is a pin whole for breathing--if that gets clogged you can pick up alot of noise. Just take a sewing needle and run it through a couple of time--it can plug very easy due to salt creep.

 

[sunsetSPS]

The cause for your noise is: durso overflow traps lots of air bubbles in their drain, these air bubbles in the drain pipe are trying to rise up and got collapsed with high velocity down stream water and bubbles, the force between these generates loud noise. A few thing you could to to reduce the noise:
- Add pipe insulation as suggested.
- Add 45* Tee upward on the vertical drain pipe, with cap at the end of the 45* tee and drill a small hole (could insert a small flex hose to reduce the air coming out but not really require), you can add 45* as often as you think it's needed. These 45* Tees are for the rising bubbles to escape to reduce the collapse with down stream water/bubbles.
- Add 90* elbow right at the drain bulkhead, run it horizontal for a short distance before running vertical down to the sump and right at the end of horizontal pipe in the join to the vertical pipe instead of having 90* elbow use a 90* Tee and extend the top of this Tee little higher with a cap (drill a hole on this cap) you need to extend the upward pipe little longer to give room for the air to stay before it escaping out from the drilled hole (add a flex dripping hose to this hole since lots of air will be releasing from this). You can imagine this is similar to the u-shape pipe under the sink with the upper of the u-shape there will be a short vertical pipe sticking up for air to escape...