Drip Acclimation for shipped fish in cold temps?

[greech]

I will be receiving my first fish purchased online tomorrow. I plan to drip acclimate but I have read conflicting recommendations on whether or not to float the closed bag for 15 - 20 minutes in the DT before starting the drip in a separate container. Some say that floating the bag can cause too much of a temperature swing at too fast a rate which I am a little concerned about that with the whether being as cold as it is right now. I will scan the bag temp to see how far off it is from my DT but how much of a degree difference should I consider NOT floating the bag before the drip starts?? Or do most always float before a drip no matter what the temp difference is???

 

[IFbettas]

When I get fish that are shipped in VERY cold water I drip them so as not to shock them. When I made my last online purchase about a month ago, the water the fish arrived in was about 55 degrees. The fish were only breathing every 5-10 seconds, not moving at all, and in overall bad shape. I dripped them for a couple hours and they gradually "unthawed". By the time I put them in the tank they were swimming around a bit.

Basically, it depends on how cold the fish are and how they are acting as to whether you should drip or float IMO.

 

[greech]

So in that situation did you float the bag first to bring the temp up or did you just go straight to dripping? Guessing that was about a 20+ degree difference from your DT/QT? I would think bring that temp up to match in ~15 minutes would have been a lot?

 

[snorvich]

When I get fish that are shipped in VERY cold water I drip them so as not to shock them. When I made my last online purchase about a month ago, the water the fish arrived in was about 55 degrees. .

You might consider a different vendor. Proper shipping and packaging should not result in 55 degree water. Personally, I always float the bag (in the sump) and then drip acclimate.

 

[IFbettas]

It was actually about a 20 degree difference from the QT in temp. I did not float the bag for fear of shocking the fish with the sudden temperature difference; just straight into a dip. The fish are doing fine still today.

 

[IFbettas]

You might consider a different vendor. Proper shipping and packaging should not result in 55 degree water. Personally, I always float the bag (in the sump) and then drip acclimate.

I bought the fish from BlueZoo, who is usually a very good vendor. There were 3 heat packs in the box. I live in a very cold area in winter, and due to weather conditions wasn't able to pick the fish up at a Fedex hold facility.

 

[iamwrasseman]

we float them for ten to fifteen minutes and then go directly into the tanks with no drip at all if the bags are cold .we have done this many times and we have seen no increase of mortality . i believe that they need to get into a stable tank asap .the time that it takes to drip will only prolong the time that the fish is in distress and its been to long already IMO .the thing that hurts the fish is the rapid PH swing or an ammonia spike fron their waste in the bag . also if you drip you should find a way to keep the dripping container at the correct temp in theory . at home when i drip i do it in a container that is in my sump so the temp stays stable . if you drip in a bucket the temp will drop drasticly during the hour and a half that its exposed to room temperature .in saying so then its not important to temp acclimate first unless your going to take the proper steps to keep the container and its water at the correct temperature.

 

[greech]

Thanks ifbetta - I thought that would be the case.

iamwrasseman - I thought that myself about the bucket cooling down but I thought the steady drip from my heated tank water would keep it stable? Should I plan on a heater for the drip bucket?

This fish is coming from LADD and everything I have read indicates their packaging is excellent.

 

[iamwrasseman]

LADD is excellent but you have to understand how cold it is 30,000 to 40,000feet in the air, its fridged to say the least even on a hot summer day .yes that would help but you wont be able to keep the temp from fluctuating because you cant get a heater for a half gallon or so .the heater will cycle and flip flop the temp to much IMO . that's why i do it in my sump so its constant . its a fine line when you receive a new fish not to stress him even more than the shipping process itself but its also a necessary evil that we have to deal with .even though the dripping water is warmer most containers have no insulation properties to combat the cooler air temp in your house . if your house were to be approx 80 to 82 degrees it would help out alot .you also can use a small styro cooler to help combat the issue but first fill it with the fish tank water to get it to the correct temp and that also will help alot .this subject is often overlooked and can be difficult to keep the temp correct that again is why i do it in the sump .i wish you the best of luck and many times when a fish is handled incorrectly it still has a good chance of survival . what kind of fish is it by the way ?

 

[greech]

Its a Potters Angel which is something I have wanted forever. It was 60 degrees the day I ordered her and now its in the 20's here. North Florida can get cold that's for sure. So I don't have a sump. Can I try a container within a container that contains a heater to keep the temps stable? I can't believe I used the word contain 3 times in a sentence

 

[iamwrasseman]

a container within a container that contains a heater ? yes but be sure to kinda test it out first .if not you can temp acclimate then drip then temp acclimate for a few minutes to get to the correct temp . there are many things that are worse for your fish than a subtle temp swing so don't get this whole temperature thing over thinked .nice fish by the way good luck he will be fine especially coming from DD .

 

[greech]

Thanks very much for talking me down I can't wait to get her!

 

[iamwrasseman]

nice catch !good luck and its about time you guys down south get some of this stinking cold weather ! we have to deal with this for five months and it &^%& . just kidding and best wishes .

 

[rishma]

You can reasonably check the temp of the bag water with your hand when it arrives. I expect the temp will be cool but okay give DD's packing practices.

I float in the sump every time. The flow is slow so heat flux is low and the temperature changes gradually. Changing 10-15 degrees over 15-20 minutes is okay in my experience, even with fragile species. I do not have daytime ambient temperatures of 20F though.

temperature stability during drip acclimation has not been an issue for me. I used to worry about this, but unless a fan is blowing to drive heat flux, the temperature drop toward ambient has not been an issue over the 1+hours of drip acclimation. I do typically keep a cover on my container and my house temperatures are usually only ~8F degrees less than the tank temperature during the winter.

I too am considering a potters, I hope she does well. Best of luck.

 

[soulsigma]

Thanks offbeat - I thought that would be the case.

Amerasian - I thought that myself about the bucket cooling down but I thought the steady drip from my heated tank water would keep it stable? Should I plan on a heater for the drip bucket?

This fish is coming from LAD and everything I have read indicates their packaging is excellent.

I order from Divers Den all the time and in fact I have a McNeil's Assessor Basslet and a Purple Tilefish coming tomorrow and I will temp acclimate them by floating them in my sump my sump, while the Styrofoam shipping container is heating up with hot water, once the 30 min. temp acclimation is over I will pour them into the container and began the two hour drip process and the styro container keep the temp stable. This works just fine for me and I always use the stress coat that I get with my care package from Blue Zoo who is also on of my favorite on line vendors.

 

[L8 2 RISE]

The cargo holds of planes' are pressurized and stay about the same temp of the cabin and the rest of the plane. That won't be where the issue is from.

I always float the bag in the sump and have a drip line coming down from the display so the temp is always right with the tank.

LADD is excellent but you have to understand how cold it is 30,000 to 40,000feet in the air, its fridged to say the least even on a hot summer day .yes that would help but you wont be able to keep the temp from fluctuating because you cant get a heater for a half gallon or so .the heater will cycle and flip flop the temp to much IMO . that's why i do it in my sump so its constant . its a fine line when you receive a new fish not to stress him even more than the shipping process itself but its also a necessary evil that we have to deal with .even though the dripping water is warmer most containers have no insulation properties to combat the cooler air temp in your house . if your house were to be approx 80 to 82 degrees it would help out alot .you also can use a small styro cooler to help combat the issue but first fill it with the fish tank water to get it to the correct temp and that also will help alot .this subject is often overlooked and can be difficult to keep the temp correct that again is why i do it in the sump .i wish you the best of luck and many times when a fish is handled incorrectly it still has a good chance of survival . what kind of fish is it by the way ?

 

[JHemdal]

From an article I wrote for AA online magazine: (regarding misinformation aquarists may run into)

1. "I drip-acclimated my fish for XX hours just like I was told." XX can be anything from four to eight hours, sometimes more. There are only two specialized instances where acclimation times this lengthy are justified: when moving a fish from lower specific gravity to a tank that is much higher and in cases where the shipment time was in excess of 36 hours. In both of these instances, life support is maintained by aeration and keeping the temperature within range. In the case of lengthy shipments, the pH / ammonia issue must be dealt with.

Think about this - you have been outside without a coat, you are hypothermic, you are then given the choice of going inside and sitting by a space heater or moving into the garage to warm up just a little, and then an hour later, go into the house - your choice is? It is the same with fish and inverts - any temperature acclimation times of more than 15 minutes are useless. Temperature shock is a much rarer thing than you might think - many more fish die due to low dissolved oxygen or high ammonia while being acclimated too long for temperature (Hemdal 2006). Perhaps worry about photo-shock, pH change and specific gravity increases, but don't go overboard. Ultimately, ask yourself; what is more stressful to a fish - acclimating them in a bare Styrofoam box or bucket for five hours, or having the water parameters abruptly change, but then being able to hole up undercover in a dark cave inside a good quality aquarium to recuperate?

JHemdal

 

[RBU1]

Here is a very interesting thread.....Makes you think. In a nutshell this thread talks about drip acclimating being no good. Raising the PH in a shipping bag can cause amonnia damage to the fish. Some people feel float and set free if the salinity matches.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1767857

 

[greech]

Wow, thanks everyone for the info and advice!

Think about this - you have been outside without a coat, you are hypothermic, you are then given the choice of going inside and sitting by a space heater or moving into the garage to warm up just a little, and then an hour later, go into the house - your choice is? It is the same with fish and inverts - any temperature acclimation times of more than 15 minutes are useless. Temperature shock is a much rarer thing than you might think - many more fish die due to low dissolved oxygen or high ammonia while being acclimated too long for temperature (Hemdal 2006). Perhaps worry about photo-shock, pH change and specific gravity increases, but don't go overboard. Ultimately, ask yourself; what is more stressful to a fish - acclimating them in a bare Styrofoam box or bucket for five hours, or having the water parameters abruptly change, but then being able to hole up undercover in a dark cave inside a good quality aquarium to recuperate?

JHemdal

I do agree with this mindset and basically did this with my B/W clown and had no acclimation issues. However, I feel that clowns are hardier than my Potters so I was trying to be cautious. Maybe too cautious?

Here is a very interesting thread.....Makes you think. In a nutshell this thread talks about drip acclimating being no good. Raising the PH in a shipping bag can cause amonnia damage to the fish. Some people feel float and set free if the salinity matches.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1767857

That is very interesting, thanks for sharing. This thread basically implies the same concept as JHemdal mentioned (get the fish to a comfortable place as soon as possible assuming water is matched). It also mentions using a batch of fresh SW that is pH and SG adjusted to the the water in the shipping bag to begin the acclimation and flush out the ammonium but aren't you essentially doing the same thing by removing water from the acclimation bucket while tank water is being replenished via the drip at the same time (diluting the ammonium)?

Thanks again everyone!

 

[snorvich]

From an article I wrote for AA online magazine: (regarding misinformation aquarists may run into)

1. "I drip-acclimated my fish for XX hours just like I was told." XX can be anything from four to eight hours, sometimes more. There are only two specialized instances where acclimation times this lengthy are justified: when moving a fish from lower specific gravity to a tank that is much higher

JHemdal

Yes, I agree. Blue Zoo ships at 1.019 and LA and LADD ship at 1.025. As such, the treatment on receipt must be different.