Dropped LED to go back to MH for the second time :/

[kevensquint]

Just want to say , I tried the 1st generation Radoin when it came out, so maybe 7 years ago ish. After a year of some corals happy ( I am a 95% SPS keeper) and some not. I sold it to put back my Phoenix 250w. Which took a month to blow a years results from the ecotech out of the water.
Then on my 75 which ran for 3 years on Radiums/Phoenix MH and T5's again, phenomenal growth and color.
Now on my newest 160, I finally wanted to once again try Led. I installed 2 Kessil 360's and T5's. My goal was to use mainly the Kessils, after a few months of bleaching at only 35% heavier on the blue side. I ended up reverting to mainly T5, and finally Kessils only on at 5% for evening viewing. So I sold them last week and once again went back to MH/T5. It's obviously too soon to see, but my experience tells me my frags will be getting new tips in the next week's. Very frustrating, my tanks run a little too clean which no doubt contributes to the fast paling out under the pure wavelengths of LED. However such a popular tech after this many years should be further along than it is ATM, IMO.

 

[madweazl]

You mentioned bleaching and paling of color; did you have both issues or just one? 35% was the intensity or color? I just moved all the LPS out to make room for more SPS so it's too early to know how the newest acros are going to do but my previous has kept it's color.

Edit: Two Kessil A360WEs over a 75g at 65% color and 40% intensity.

 

[kevensquint]

35% intensity color was around 25 or30% . The kessils were about 20" maybe more above the water. I was very , very gentle and still was too much.What can I say a significant group of hobbyists as well as myself are not compatible with Leds. It's funny how Leds where touted as stand alone awsomness a few years ago, and now even BRS videos mention Leds are best with T5. Maybe in a few more years it will be, you know what? the last 10 years of Leds was a bit misleading after all.
Monti caps bleach, acros paled. When I went to Kessils at 5% in the evening and T5's for the photoperiod colors came back. Some people have success with Led, but I like the ease of getting awesome results with MH even in my lower nutrient style systems. In my clients tanks LPS and softies LOVE led.....sps is more touchy.

 

[dirland]

I seem to have same issue with LED butt mine is dyi....just got a free orbit mh and t5 fixture, put new bulbs in it and SPS starting to show color with less than a week

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[dirland]

I am still going to add some led to the fixture itself and just run all three types of light.....than I can't miss right?!?!

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[kevensquint]

I feel those that have success have matched the perfect spectrum, intensity and DLI with the chemistry and corals in their tank. I have never hit that target. Many variables and some luck thrown in with educated guess work. That said in the past say 8 years I've dropped 2 grandish into Led trials. I'm out.

 

[malate]

Don't blame you. I'm considering going back to Phoenix MHs myself. Went to Kessil AE360 and haven't had any luck w sPS growth.

 

[Horace]

I think lights are often the scapegoat for other issues.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[kevensquint]

I think lights are often the scapegoat for other issues.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

That would only be the case if all proven lights were unsuccessful on said tank. Since the "other issues " would still be present. I can only speak for my experience. Leds no luck, T5 and or MH SPS results as good as any above average tanks and that without changing anything else other than the Leds.

 

[cobra2326]

That would only be the case if all proven lights were unsuccessful on said tank. Since the "other issues " would still be present. I can only speak for my experience. Leds no luck, T5 and or MH SPS results as good as any above average tanks and that without changing anything else other than the Leds.

I don't think anyone debates that the right T5 or MH fixtures, sized for the proper tank are basically plug-and-play. That's why Ecotech did their CoralLab plans, Kessil has their color wheel, etc. For the most part, MH/T5 is still the gold standard, although that is quickly changing.

 

[kevin.st]

I don't think anyone debates that the right T5 or MH fixtures, sized for the proper tank are basically plug-and-play. That's why Ecotech did their CoralLab plans, Kessil has their color wheel, etc. For the most part, MH/T5 is still the gold standard, although that is quickly changing.

Quickly changing? I think not.

 

[kevensquint]

Led becoming the new gold standard would mean basically anyone with correct water parameters and conditions can easily get great results. I don't see that yet or happening this year. As I mentioned previously even BRS says in a light video Led results are best when used with T5. Jason Fox says in his video he doesn't find Led all that great stand-alone.
This post was not meant for a debate, I have nothing to debate about, my mind is made up. It was so newer reefers can see yet another reef veteran (27 years now) going back to old school lights. It is advantageous for me that other hobbyists buy MH and T5 bulbs so they remain available. I aired my dirty laundry now. So I'm going back to hands on instead of virtual hobby activities.

 

[Scorpius]

I can attest to the coral nuking capabilities of the Kessil A360we series. 35% intensity can/will kill coral not used to this light.

 

[Randy27]

Leds vary within the brands, as well. I wasn't impressed with the new kessils and went back to my hydras and will likely never look back. But I never did the t5 bit...always hated the washed out colors in sps. Just gotta find the right led for your system.

 

[madweazl]

35% intensity color was around 25 or30% . The kessils were about 20" maybe more above the water. I was very , very gentle and still was too much.What can I say a significant group of hobbyists as well as myself are not compatible with Leds. It's funny how Leds where touted as stand alone awsomness a few years ago, and now even BRS videos mention Leds are best with T5. Maybe in a few more years it will be, you know what? the last 10 years of Leds was a bit misleading after all.
Monti caps bleach, acros paled. When I went to Kessils at 5% in the evening and T5's for the photoperiod colors came back. Some people have success with Led, but I like the ease of getting awesome results with MH even in my lower nutrient style systems. In my clients tanks LPS and softies LOVE led.....sps is more touchy.

I just cant see an A360 providing enough PAR to bleach an SPS (or much of anything for that matter) at 35% intensity mounted 20" above the tank. Did you ever have a chance to measure PAR by chance? I get just over 100 PAR (Apogee MQ-500 with full spectrum sensor and 1.32 correction factor) at 40% intensity, 8" below the surface, with the light 5" above the water line. I would think it more likely you weren't getting enough intensity. I'm not trying to convince you (or anyone else) to go back, I'd just like to know a bit more.

 

[Mortie31]

This post was not meant for a debate, I have nothing to debate about, my mind is made up. It was so newer reefers can see yet another reef veteran (27 years now) going back to old school lights. It is advantageous for me that other hobbyists buy MH and T5 bulbs so they remain available. I aired my dirty laundry now. So I'm going back to hands on instead of virtual hobby activities.[/QUOTE]

So you made your statements purely for personal gain then!!! as you want others to buy them so they stay available... you are deliberately trying to influence others without debating your statements.... I hope others are not swayed by you and do debate....

 

[kevensquint]

* your right that was not a fair way to put it. Same thing but worded more diplomatically.

" I honestly believe thanks to years of experience MH and or T5 is a better choice all around for every hobbyist to be very successful. And as for myself I want to put my experience out there in hopes others consider MH over LED so all those that enjoy those lights including myself can continue to use them. "
As for the relatively low PAR at 30-40% being able to bleach. Your neglecting the fact that Led are pure spectrums so 150 PAR of blue LED might be 150 PAR of 450nm. So the photosynthetic efficiency of that 150 PAR is much higher than say a Radium MH at 150 PAR. Which will have a strong 450nm peak, but other wavelengths as well. My 75 using MH/T5 from day 1 to day 365.

 

[jda]

Don't sweat this.

I am starting to fully understand why the best of the best reefers disappear from the internet altogether except to sell their wonderful frags for a mint a few times a year and maybe type up a TOTM article every few years. They have years and years of PERSONAL experience that they try and share with folks, yet get crushed by those with no/less experience who are keyboard warriors that lack any kind of nuance and details about the hobby and talk about what they have in their own homes and what they have read about from others and have never fully experienced what they are arguing against. They finally figure out that they don't need the headache of swimming upstream against the bandwagoners and folks who covet their tank success, but not their advice on how they got there.

 

[plyle02]

Don't sweat this.

I am starting to fully understand why the best of the best reefers disappear from the internet altogether except to sell their wonderful frags for a mint a few times a year and maybe type up a TOTM article every few years. They have years and years of PERSONAL experience that they try and share with folks, yet get crushed by those with no/less experience who are keyboard warriors that lack any kind of nuance and details about the hobby and talk about what they have in their own homes and what they have read about from others and have never fully experienced what they are arguing against. They finally figure out that they don't need the headache of swimming upstream against the bandwagoners and folks who covet their tank success, but not their advice on how they got there.

I agree with this statement, and have seen all of those old school aquarists that I admired so much disappear, always wondering why? And if you think the hobbyist side is brutal from a keyboard battle perspective, try working in the industry...lol... Oh wow it is BRUTAL Trendies are riddled throughout the industry side, and often a product is revered or propped up by who is the best "dude bro" at the after hours functions. I have seen it all, I am now a hobbyist again, and I may just decide to go away too, lol...

 

[cobra2326]

In the interest of full disclosure, I'm a total noob when it comes to SPS and I was just noting the trends (LED) and standards (MH and T5). I shouldn't have even bothered putting "that is quickly changing". People can interpret trends and results how they will without my opinion.

I've been following many of the threads by successful SPS keepers and doing my best to imitate them. Time will tell, but I'm fully invested in LED (I have a custom build that I can continue to tweak until I get results or give up).