Drum Roll Please...... 8000 gallon tank build
- Thread starter GoBigOrGoHome
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GoBigOrGoHome
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@widmer: Good question. There has been a lot of talk about what type of lighting but in all honesty, this conversation is outdated by now with what LED technology has come up with in the past 18-24 months.
For the time being, we're using 6 90w UFO LED pendants to light the tank. Its plenty for illumination and we'll see what it does for photosynthesis. If we need more, we'll get more, but for the time being, it seems like that will be enough, especially with afternoon ambient sunlight. LED will work best for us both because of its efficiency and because of its ease of ventilation due to minimal heat production. The water level is only 18" below the top of the tank and we want everything contained within the tank underneath the granite lip so as to conceal anything that looks unnatural. Halides would be cumbersome and a hassle to cool.
For the time being, we're using 6 90w UFO LED pendants to light the tank. Its plenty for illumination and we'll see what it does for photosynthesis. If we need more, we'll get more, but for the time being, it seems like that will be enough, especially with afternoon ambient sunlight. LED will work best for us both because of its efficiency and because of its ease of ventilation due to minimal heat production. The water level is only 18" below the top of the tank and we want everything contained within the tank underneath the granite lip so as to conceal anything that looks unnatural. Halides would be cumbersome and a hassle to cool.
rick rottet
reefkeeper// propagator
is the concrete going to need time to cure and/or leach, like when making DIY liverock, or will the curing be pretty much done since it has had some time between pouring the concrete and filling the tank with water?
widmer
Drug Enthusiast
Dude your situation is completely ideal for a DIY Cree XP-G or XM-L based system. No one will see the long term savings of a Cree LED system better than someone with a LARGE tank. Compared to planning and constructing a tank of that scale, making the LED fixture for it would take a heart beat's time and planning...
miwoodar
Likey the bikey
JohnM99
Premium Member
I did see you discussing the issues of heat some time ago in the thread - and I believe the house is primarily heated by a wood burning source - I found this very interesting - I have a relative whose large house has been very efficiently heated with wood for 25 years (he is an engineer who designed a very efficient system).
I see you had a lot of thought about how the house would heat the tank. I wonder the opposite - I would expect that this volume of water would have a significant stablizing effect on the heating of the house. It will take quite a bit of time to initially heat it up, but then should slow down the temperature fluctuations of the house around it.
It will be interesting to hear about your observations on this.
Cheers
John
I see you had a lot of thought about how the house would heat the tank. I wonder the opposite - I would expect that this volume of water would have a significant stablizing effect on the heating of the house. It will take quite a bit of time to initially heat it up, but then should slow down the temperature fluctuations of the house around it.
It will be interesting to hear about your observations on this.
Cheers
John
GoBigOrGoHome
New member
@rick rottet the concrete was poured over 5 years ago and has since been mudded and sealed, so I'd say we're good in that arena :thumbsup:
@widmer I'm not sure if my uncle would go with that idea but I'd be all about it. I'll definitely look into it although at this point, just throwing 6x90w led's overhead seems appealing given the fact that we know it will work, for illumination anyway. What it does for photosynthesis will probably not be realized until a year or so from now
@miwoodar the ideas for stock haven't changed much, but the main foci are as follows:
-California Horned Shark
-White Spotted Bamboo Shark
-Epaulette Shark
-Port Jackson Shark
-Blue-spotted Stingray
Beyond that, I'd look to see maybe 15 assorted tangs plus a group of yellows, maybe a group of blues or sailfins, a few triggers (Niger, Bluethroat, crossing my fingers for a crosshatch) a few butterflies (longnose, klein's, raccoon, heniochus, maybe something else a bit more obscure), a few angels (not sure here, there are so many to choose from, and they will be some of the last added), and a few other oddballs, scorpion, lion, batfish, perhaps a group of cardinals or anthias, probably a few other little ones like clowns and small wrasses that will more or less dwell in the rocks. Beyond that, perhaps a miniatus or panther grouper, and I can't think of much else at the moment.
@John Yes, I would certainly expect the water to have a stabilizing effect on the house as a hole, preventing any kind of temperature swings, but I highly doubt those sorts of things occur. That being said, while the water may stabilize the heat of the house, there will be no designated heat source for the aquarium (and we're using LED's for light and predominantly external pumps), and thus, the house will indeed be heating the tank.
@widmer I'm not sure if my uncle would go with that idea but I'd be all about it. I'll definitely look into it although at this point, just throwing 6x90w led's overhead seems appealing given the fact that we know it will work, for illumination anyway. What it does for photosynthesis will probably not be realized until a year or so from now
@miwoodar the ideas for stock haven't changed much, but the main foci are as follows:
-California Horned Shark
-White Spotted Bamboo Shark
-Epaulette Shark
-Port Jackson Shark
-Blue-spotted Stingray
Beyond that, I'd look to see maybe 15 assorted tangs plus a group of yellows, maybe a group of blues or sailfins, a few triggers (Niger, Bluethroat, crossing my fingers for a crosshatch) a few butterflies (longnose, klein's, raccoon, heniochus, maybe something else a bit more obscure), a few angels (not sure here, there are so many to choose from, and they will be some of the last added), and a few other oddballs, scorpion, lion, batfish, perhaps a group of cardinals or anthias, probably a few other little ones like clowns and small wrasses that will more or less dwell in the rocks. Beyond that, perhaps a miniatus or panther grouper, and I can't think of much else at the moment.
@John Yes, I would certainly expect the water to have a stabilizing effect on the house as a hole, preventing any kind of temperature swings, but I highly doubt those sorts of things occur. That being said, while the water may stabilize the heat of the house, there will be no designated heat source for the aquarium (and we're using LED's for light and predominantly external pumps), and thus, the house will indeed be heating the tank.
EdKruzel
Premium Member
Very cool build and an incredible and monumentous challenge; that alone is impressive. I do have some advice on your fish list, the many large display animals will reach maximum size fairly quick. The smaller fish you have listed will be short lived as an expensive snack. One of the most vicious predators on your list is the Panther Grouper. They grow very large (ok not compared to your giant enclosure) and will make fast work of Cardinals, Anthias and anything else that will fit in their mouth. It's very tough to mix small and large species even in large tanks.
Just food for thought and I'm sure your list will be tweaked a hundred times by the time you're ready.
Best of luck...
widmer
Drug Enthusiast
You should totally do a couple of longspine urchins (if its ok to keep them with the sharks) since you have the luxury of space for these basketball-sized urchins....
Also, if you're not planning on doing a reef, then maybe some cool kelp or other marine plant that could span the height of the tank?
Also, if you're not planning on doing a reef, then maybe some cool kelp or other marine plant that could span the height of the tank?
GoBigOrGoHome
New member
@EdKruzel I'll say you're probably right on the matter, but I'm not sure its going to stop us from trying... I guess we're going on the premise that there will be plenty of hiding places (and widmer, yes a couple of longspine urchins, one of which we already have) which may not have much bearing on the safety of the anthias, but given anemones and urchins, I have faith that some cardinals or clowns could make it on the long term. We will do our best to keep predatory aggression to a minimum via sufficient feeding.
@greech we wouldn't have it any other way :thumbsup:
@Saadatski, look through some pictures in the original albums and you'll understand why the sun is not our primary source of light. The ceiling is immaculate, beautiful, and 20 feet high. My uncle (rightfully so) won't compromise to installing skylights or putting solatubes in that will obstruct the view of the tank and the surrounding room. While you're right, its just not an option in this scenario
@greech we wouldn't have it any other way :thumbsup:
@Saadatski, look through some pictures in the original albums and you'll understand why the sun is not our primary source of light. The ceiling is immaculate, beautiful, and 20 feet high. My uncle (rightfully so) won't compromise to installing skylights or putting solatubes in that will obstruct the view of the tank and the surrounding room. While you're right, its just not an option in this scenario
EdKruzel
Premium Member
It wouldn't work, he's too far north to run skylights or even solartubes. I have a few friends running both methods in El Paso, TX and they have to run halides for the winter months when the sun is lowest on the horizon. Worse yet is that they have to use greenhouse fabric in the spring to lessen the effect and reacclimatize the corals to the intensity.
fla2341
New member
I know your not looking to do a "reef" but how are you going to address any rock work structures. I know some sharks like to sleep/rest in caves or under overhangs. You could do a rock work structure using Dry rock, concrete, pond foam, plastic egg crate and zip ties for structure. This would allow you to create some nice overhangs and rock structures without having to get boulder sized rocks and slabs or a ton of rock.
This thread here shows extensive rock work using these methods. It's not quite as big as yours but it does give you some idea of what you can do along these lines.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1827226 starting about pg5
As far as the lighting goes you could look into several small DIY leds using the XML leds (neutral and/or cool whites). They put out a lot of light, will run much cooler then MH and use less electrical and allow for dimming with the right driver. They would also allow you to do a controlled spot light of certian areas using the right angle of lense and let some areas be darker giving the sense of depth - or should I say more depth. If you add in some blue/royal blue XPE you would get a dawn/dusk/moonlight effect. They might also bring out the contrasting colors better in your fish selections. You don't have to light the entire area with extreemly bright light. But it might be nice to be able to aim the light you do want where you want it to go.
widmer did some experimentation with lenses and had to put one of his diy leds almost on the ceiling if I remember correctly.
This thread here shows extensive rock work using these methods. It's not quite as big as yours but it does give you some idea of what you can do along these lines.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1827226 starting about pg5
As far as the lighting goes you could look into several small DIY leds using the XML leds (neutral and/or cool whites). They put out a lot of light, will run much cooler then MH and use less electrical and allow for dimming with the right driver. They would also allow you to do a controlled spot light of certian areas using the right angle of lense and let some areas be darker giving the sense of depth - or should I say more depth. If you add in some blue/royal blue XPE you would get a dawn/dusk/moonlight effect. They might also bring out the contrasting colors better in your fish selections. You don't have to light the entire area with extreemly bright light. But it might be nice to be able to aim the light you do want where you want it to go.
widmer did some experimentation with lenses and had to put one of his diy leds almost on the ceiling if I remember correctly.
widmer
Drug Enthusiast
Agreed with Fla2341 @ the LED scheme. It would be a really killer effect if you primarily just lit up the front and/or center section of the tank and had ''dark recesses'' or ''the shadows'' toward the back, such that the sharks and others could be swimming out to and from these regions.
What's cool about the LEDs is you can pack them into such a tight fixture and strap whatever lenses you want on them (I'm currently using ~12 degree lenses to project a few feet, they are fully available as tight as ~2 degrees). You could very easily and efficiently illuminate exactly what areas of the tank you want to, with a very small fixture situated at the perimeter of the tank's water surface, with close to zero light spill. It would be a lot cheaper and more customizable than buying the six cannons you mentioned earlier. If I remember correctly, I calculated somewhere around here that you could be getting ~five times the light for the price if you DIY.
What's cool about the LEDs is you can pack them into such a tight fixture and strap whatever lenses you want on them (I'm currently using ~12 degree lenses to project a few feet, they are fully available as tight as ~2 degrees). You could very easily and efficiently illuminate exactly what areas of the tank you want to, with a very small fixture situated at the perimeter of the tank's water surface, with close to zero light spill. It would be a lot cheaper and more customizable than buying the six cannons you mentioned earlier. If I remember correctly, I calculated somewhere around here that you could be getting ~five times the light for the price if you DIY.
GoBigOrGoHome
New member
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GoBigOrGoHome
New member
The fixtures we have are quite inexpensive and seem to do the job. Again, if we have an issue with photosyntesis, we'll look into other options, but for the time being, it seems that we've got what we're looking for. As much as I'm aware that spot lighting and front lighting an aquarium can give a pretty dramatic effect, I'm concerned that front lighting may interfere so much that you may not be able to see the back of the tank at all. This is still up for experimentation (and debate), so carry on.
As far as rock structures go, we'll be using large pieces of limestone as base intermixed with live rock and perhaps some cement for stability. I don't foresee the necessity for anything else there, but things may change.
As far as rock structures go, we'll be using large pieces of limestone as base intermixed with live rock and perhaps some cement for stability. I don't foresee the necessity for anything else there, but things may change.
GoBigOrGoHome
New member
Ordering a new port jackson shark and a few new tangs in the next week or so. Pretty much have all the rock we'll be using. It looks like probably a little more than a ton of pressure washed limestone, really nice looking stuff, pretty reef-like. We'll be stocking up on live rock in the future, but not until the tank is full of saltwater, which could be a couple months out. I'd say we'll be doing at least one more test fill. I'll be home over Thanksgiving, so I'll try to get a few updated pics if the appearance has changed at all.
Girly Gears
New member
More pics! I'd be thankful for that lol. Looks like you are about ready to split this bad @$$ thread!
