drummereef's 180g in-wall build

[Greenmaster]

I've done a fair amount of work with LED light for reef aquaria usage, but I by no means consider myself a guru. Still, this sounds absolutely wrong to me. Cree makes LEDs that put off more then 100 lumens/watt, and I know that this was an astonishing figure that blew other forms of lighting completely out of the water. As far as the heat issue, LEDs do require more heat management then MH at the die end, but none of the light they produce is in the infrared range, which means the water is not heated as much by the presence of the light.

The 100 lumens/watt is somewhat misleading. Generally that light output is with only a 15-25 degree spread of light. Some MH have similar lumen/watt output. I believe that within the next year or two the LED's will improve to 200 lumens/watt. There are some 100-110 lumens/watt out there right now but they are around $5-10 a watt where as the normal LED's are around $1 per watt but only put out 70-90 lumens or if you buy the larger dies that have like 20-100 watts per die you are looking at closer to the 60-70 lumen/watt range. I also don't know what LED's you are testing but all the 6500k (white) LED's I have tested put off infrared... per lumen they seem only slightly less hot (infrared) then MH. In my build I am using some LEDs but MH is going to be my main light source. Over the next two years though I would love to slowly replace my MH with LED's as the performance increases. Just a bit of background I also am not a guru but I have installed LED lighting in my house (kitchen/living room) and plan on using it for some of my tank lighting.

sorry for hijacking your thread I just know lots of people are following this awesome build and I feel it is important to have accurate information, especially when it involves new tech.

 

[Taqpol]

The 100 lumens/watt is somewhat misleading. Generally that light output is with only a 15-25 degree spread of light. Some MH have similar lumen/watt output. I believe that within the next year or two the LED's will improve to 200 lumens/watt. There are some 100-110 lumens/watt out there right now but they are around $5-10 a watt where as the normal LED's are around $1 per watt but only put out 70-90 lumens or if you buy the larger dies that have like 20-100 watts per die you are looking at closer to the 60-70 lumen/watt range. I also don't know what LED's you are testing but all the 6500k (white) LED's I have tested put off infrared... per lumen they seem only slightly less hot (infrared) then MH. In my build I am using some LEDs but MH is going to be my main light source. Over the next two years though I would love to slowly replace my MH with LED's as the performance increases. Just a bit of background I also am not a guru but I have installed LED lighting in my house (kitchen/living room) and plan on using it for some of my tank lighting.

sorry for hijacking your thread I just know lots of people are following this awesome build and I feel it is important to have accurate information, especially when it involves new tech.

I don't want to start a long debate, especially in someone elses thread, but I am confused. Any information I have picked up about LEDs has been from the massive LED thread in the DIY forum. I do know for a fact that many people who have switched to LEDs from MH have reported that their tank temperature no longer fluctuates as much as it did during the day/night cycle, and I was pretty sure this was attributed to much less infrared in the spectrum. As I have no means to measure infrared or any spectrum of light, I cannot confirm this, but by looking at the data sheet for the Cree XR-E Cool white LED published by Cree (definitely a biased source) vs. the spectrographic plots made by Sanjay Joshi of various MH lamps I can see that the MH's have spikes in the spectrum past 700 nm that I do not see in the Cree spec sheet. I guess the lack of temperature swings could also be from using ~72 watts of LEDs (24 bulb emitter with 60 degree optics) to replace 250 watts of metal halide. As you mentioned with the lumens/watt spread of light, the aforementioned LED system will have much less spread then the comparable MH, but still enough spread to not look weird over a tank if mounted at the correct height.

I absolutely do not think everyone should jump on the LED bandwagon, as there are pros and cons to both forms of lighting. As of now this technology is definitely unproven (I'm pretty sure Soundwave's system has been running healthily for over a year on LED light alone, but a year is not really long term yet) but I feel that the potential is amazing and if you can support the up front cost the potential for return on investment is there.

 

[Greenmaster]

My Last post on this. I do not believe that 72w of LED is anywhere near 250w of MH. (72w LED at 100 Lumens/watt is only 7,200 Lumens, 250w MH is 21000 Lumens) The difference in wattage is enough to make the difference in heat. MH do have more infrared then LEDs but LEDs do still put off infrared just not a spike in one wavelength. For corals if there is enough food they don't need as much light... I would like to know what his light levels were in his tank with MH and what they were when they changed to LED. I am waiting on the manufacture of my tank and have not purchased my MH lighting yet so if you could get him to PM me about his experience that would be awesome. I still have my doubts that the lighting is comparable but I'm interested. Also everyone is still learning and this is a developing technology.

 

[drummereef]

UPDATE:


Say hello to my little friend...

 

[rs1831]

Sweet!

 

[Greenmaster]

Looks amazing although the fish looks lonely I think it needs some friends How long you going to wait to add more livestock?

 

[tegee]

Looks great Brett......been 10-weeks know for me and my rock has finally lost that white color. A new build is draining and exciting at the same time.

 

[drummereef]

Sweet!

Thanks rs1831.

Looks amazing although the fish looks lonely I think it needs some friends How long you going to wait to add more livestock? [/url]

Haha agree! I figure it will be a little while before I add any more fish. I'll let the tank settle in just to make sure the bio filter is keeping up. I will probably add some snails in the next week though. How long would you suggest waiting?

Looks great Brett......been 10-weeks know for me and my rock has finally lost that white color. A new build is draining and exciting at the same time.

Yes it is. Do you mean you are getting coralline algae on the rock now?

 

[drummereef]

So I'm considering selling my Aquacontroller Jr and upgrading to the Apex Lite system. What's everyone's thoughts?

 

[Taqpol]

Hahaha, not really a "little" friend, is he? How long have you had that guy?

I bought an APEX but haven't actually received it yet. I think that the features/price of it blows the other controllers out of the water. Plus, if you are even remotely programming savvy you can make it do some amazing things.

 

[drummereef]

Hahaha, not really a "little" friend, is he? How long have you had that guy?

I bought an APEX but haven't actually received it yet. I think that the features/price of it blows the other controllers out of the water. Plus, if you are even remotely programming savvy you can make it do some amazing things.

Hehe, I've had my yellow tang for 5 years give or take. I'm pretty sure by the way he was swimming around last night he likes the new tank waaaaay better. Did you get the Apex or Apex Lite Alex?

 

[Taqpol]

Full on Apex. I forget what all the lite was missing, but it was a much better deal to get the standard Apex.

 

[drummereef]

Full on Apex. I forget what all the lite was missing, but it was a much better deal to get the standard Apex.

From what I saw on Neptune's site it was missing ORP monitoring and Tunze wave control. Just don't know if I can swing the extra $$ for the full Apex and don't really know if I'd ever use the extra features on my system anyhoo... at least at this point. But I think the Lite is expandable via the modules. Just not all in one box.

 

[tegee]

From what I saw on Neptune's site it was missing ORP monitoring and Tunze wave control. Just don't know if I can swing the extra $$ for the full Apex and don't really know if I'd ever use the extra features on my system anyhoo... at least at this point. But I think the Lite is expandable via the modules. Just not all in one box.

I think you are correct Brett......the Apex Lite is missing one additional port and for someone like me (a Tunze fan) is can't control Tunze's, which is obviously a huge feature for me. But I do think you can upgrade and/or expand with some add on equipment through Neptune.

And BTW.....only a little coraline algae at this point. The color of the rock must be from other bacteria and alike. I just put a couple of more pieces of live rock so I am hoping that it will help spread the coraline a bit more.

 

[drummereef]

I think you are correct Brett......the Apex Lite is missing one additional port and for someone like me (a Tunze fan) is can't control Tunze's, which is obviously a huge feature for me. But I do think you can upgrade and/or expand with some add on equipment through Neptune.

And BTW.....only a little coraline algae at this point. The color of the rock must be from other bacteria and alike. I just put a couple of more pieces of live rock so I am hoping that it will help spread the coraline a bit more.

Perfect, thanks for the info tegee. I do like my Vortech controllers and don't have any controllable Tunze pumps at the moment, just the two Nano 6025s. I've always dosed 2 part so a calcium reactor was never part of the plan but adding more another pH monitor wouldn't be difficult with the available modules I guess. Depending on the price I can get I'm 98% sure I'm going to take the plunge.

 

[Greenmaster]

If I had your tank I would be adding 1-2 fish a week till I had them over...(that might get me into trouble) but I would also be watching the tests to make sure everything stays stable. Are you going to seed some coraline algae? Or put any live rock in there?

 

[drummereef]

If I had your tank I would be adding 1-2 fish a week till I had them over...(that might get me into trouble) but I would also be watching the tests to make sure everything stays stable. Are you going to seed some coraline algae? Or put any live rock in there?

:lol: I'm still getting used to ONE fish. Haha. I'll probably add a few snails and a couple shrimp here pretty soon. I'm still testing to see what the water quality is like and probably need to do a water change soon as well. I know I want a few Anthias just don't know which ones yet. My LFS had some pretty orange anthias but I might want to do a purple Lyretail or something. I think the purple would look nice against the yellow tang.

 

[drummereef]

On another note, have a few goodies coming tomorrow. Apex Lite System and a Tiger Shark Algae Magnet.

Tonight I'm getting the supplies to finish the dedicated outlets needed to finish the conduit project so I should have the controller running in some form by the weekend. My main concern is getting my heaters controlled asap.

I want to "sleeve" the stranded wires as they come out of the conduit and up to the plugs. I'm considering getting some sleeving from McMaster-Carr. Each group of 3 wires (hot/neutral/ground) will be sleeved just like what an extension cord looks like, for a total of 9 plugs. Here's the two choices I saw that might work and are about the same price.

A - Vinyl Coated sleeve made of braided fiberglass coated in vinyl

B - Flexible PVC chemical resistant sleeve

I can't link to McMaster-Carr because their links only go to the main page. Thoughts?

 

[saltwater_fish]

Very Good Work!!!!

 

[dancewithethan]

ATO system

ATO system

Hi Brett

I love your built, and learned much from it.

Question, I did the same RO/DI pluming as your for the ATO system, however, once my float switch turned off, the Auto Shot Off unit on the RO/DI turned the water off as it should, and will not turn back on. any suggestions what went wrong?

My RO/DI is the 300 GPD from Bulk Reef Supply
and my float switch is Level-Loc auto top off unit.

Thanks

Ethan