DSB in a bucket for nitrate control

[ryan_paskadi]

Yes a dsb is good but there are differences in what kind of sand or substrate you use (chemical composition, grain size). What those diff. are... I dont know.

I would be curious to know what type of sand/mud is best for a dsb....or does it not really matter

 

[snorvich]

Well to some degree it does not matter but if you read the thread, best results are probably from oolithic aragonite sugar sand.

 

[KafudaFish]

If I can ever make it to HD or Lowes I will try the experiment. I have a 29 gallon mantis tank that has high nitrates. The tank has been up and running for over a year and I don't add anything to it other than dinner.
The tank is not drilled so I would have to use PVC pipe as a RDSB. I figure 4" pipe and 100# playsand. I would use about 4 or 5 feet of pipe for it to reach above the aquarium.

Of course this is just one observation and would need others to join in to validate the results.

 

[mille239]

kafudaFish, are talking about having a RDSB 4-5 feet high, and only 4" in diameter? I believe it was discussed earlier in this thread that anything over 15 inches or so deep is moot, so it seems like it would be a waste of sand. Also, 4" diameter is not much surface area, (12.5 sq in) and won't likely make much of an impact on your tank. Furthermore, providing flow to this RDSB which does not stir up such a small surface area may be difficult as well.
If you do choose to try this route, might I suggest only making the sand bed about 12" deep, and place a cap on the bottom of the PVC at this height. you could then use the rest of the 4-5' length of pvc to act as a stand for the shorter section to sit on, allowing it to be above the height of your tank.
I think you would be better off building a small pedastal or stand next to your tank and using a 5 gallon bucket as mentioned throughout this thread for much better results.
good luck!

 

[KafudaFish]

Mille,yes one of my concerns with this is the surface area of the container. There would still be water exchange in the interstitial spaces even if the sand depth was several feet rather than one foot deep. I think the argument against going deeper is the effectiveness once the water reaches hypoxic and anoxic regions in the sand.
Blair, do you mean something like this bottom up: 4 feet pvc, cap, 12 - 15 inches of pipe with sand, cap to seal? How would I section off the pipe? I am trying to figure out how just cannot picture it in my mind.

The reason I was thinking of using pvc pipe is I don't have room behing my aqarium to place a 5 gallon bucket but maybe I could do a square kitty litter bucket. Another thing I could do is build a stand with 2 x 4's.

I wonder if my wife would notice?

 

[mille239]

I guess it was a little confusing... maybe this drawing will help.

 

[asonitez]

Can I just use a Canister Filter? with a Maxijet in my Sump Pushing water through and the spray bar in the Canister Filter Spraying into my Refugium?

 

[snorvich]

asonitez, I think you would be wise to go back and read the thread. You are revisiting questions already asked and answers already provided multiple times.

 

[morbid0000]

100gal reef
6gal glass carboy filled 3/4 with sand [tubing through rubber plug, carboy in a black bag to block light] and fed by maxijet 1200
Running since 01/05 with no sand changes
Initial nitrates 80
Current nitrates 40
RDSB output nitrates 0
I love this thing.

 

[KafudaFish]

Morbid,
Is this a 6 gallon carboy used in beer brewing? I have several under the house and this would solve the problem of drilling anything but again my issue is space. I might have a 3 gallon around too that could work.
I wonder how a wrapping paper container would work? It is tall, has a greater surface area, narrow and cheaper than pvc. The only downside might be the flexible sides and the bulkhead opening leaking.

 

[stevedola]

is there any advantage (besides cost) to using a RDsb in a bucket rather than a 20g fuge style setup with cheato and a 6"dsb? whats the real difference in action?

 

[mille239]

Well from the first few pages of this thread, the purpose of having it in a bucket (covered with no light) is to prevent algae growth within the RDSB. If you were to have a normal DSB in a fuge with chaeto, you would need to have a light on it which would cause algae growth. Furthermore, by having it in a bucket, you can easily take it offline, switch it out for a new RDSB after a few years, place it virtually anywhere you have room for it, etc..

looking at the big picture though,a DSB is a DSB, and the results will essentially be the same: (with some variation due to flow, bioload, size, etc.) lower nitrates.
I chose to go your route steve, and I have a 29 gallon fuge which I partitioned off in the middle, with a 12" deep sand bed on one side, and chaeto growing in the other. the water has to flow over the DSB to exit the fuge, and I keep a piece of opaque acrylic over the sand bed portion to minimize algae build up in that section. my DSB is 15" x 11.5" by 12" deep. this is actuallly a larger surface area than a bucket would provide, which is one advantage over the bucket.

 

[mille239]

Steve, after I posted in your other thread on this topic I thought I would add my set up to this forum for others to see/comment on.

 

[LockeOak]

Ok, so I'm considering doing this with my new barebottom 50G tank in combination with a 20G sump/fuge filled with Chaetomorpha with a fairly light fish load. My question, what's the minimum flow you could use with a 5G bucket mostly full of sand? Could you use an aqualifter, which I believe maxes out at 5gph? I was thinking just drawing in water from the refugium (where the flow is low and most detritus will have already settled). I ask because I have one lying around and if I have to buy a pump for the DSB it goes down the list of priorities (other priorities being things like lights).

 

[Kinetic]

I'm not sure what the minimum is, but the problem is keeping the sand bed clean.

How are people going about this?

I'm thinking of plumbing two phosban reactors to the rdsb, a carbon one before, and a phosphate absorbing media afterwards.

Since the phosphate media needs about 80gph, I think plumbing it with a 150gph pump or so will do the trick.

I'm also thinking of doing a closed loop in the RDSB so that nothing collects on the sand. Maybe a MJ1200. It'll basically recirculate the water, while the actual water flow through is very low.

 

[KafudaFish]

I am going to have to wait on my little experiment. There is a 7.5 foot Christmas tree standing in my way now. Yes it was a wife intervention that has caused a delay. However I thought of a different container in case anyone is interested. Our diaper pail is hard plastic and two of the sides are flat so a normal bulkhead should work. I think they are about $10 at the store too.

 

[snorvich]

An aqualifter is insufficent. I use an Eheim 1250 (312 gph) and it is perfect. I too used a container with flat sides although there are ways around that problem even with a bucket.

However I use a chaeto refugium connected to a remote deep sand bed. I don't think you want to combine them as keeping the sand clean is problematical.

 

[Kinetic]

I just made a RDSB! I basically took a square 4 gallon bucket with lid I bought from usplastics.com, and drilled two holes on opposite sides. I found insert fitting bulkheads at my LFS today at 3/4", and a reducer. So I got all of that and I will be hooking up some pump that has a 1/2" outlet to it and dumping it out back into the tank, or maybe I'll hook it up inline with another phosphate reactor.

I first drilled the holes for the 3/4" Bulkheads, then I took a dremel with a grinder and grinded flat the "ribs" that went where the bulkhead was. Once that was done, I just had to do some vinyl tubing for the intake. I need 1/2" vinyl tubing and some 3/4" to finish it off tomorrow. I'll probably hook it up to a MJ900 that I have to digup somewhere. This will start reducing my nitrates soon!

I'm currently chemical dosing my tank for it to cycle. I dose 8ppm of ammonia daily. Ammonia is falling to undetectable rates within a day now, nitrites within 2 days, nitrates are currently off the charts (>50ppm lol).

I've been cycling this way since October with all dead dry rock (no seeding of any kind except Marineland Bio-Spira once in November).

I'll let you guys know how it brings my levels down.

 

[mr.wilson]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11271076#post11271076 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by morbid0000
100gal reef
6gal glass carboy filled 3/4 with sand [tubing through rubber plug, carboy in a black bag to block light] and fed by maxijet 1200
Running since 01/05 with no sand changes
Initial nitrates 80
Current nitrates 40
RDSB output nitrates 0
I love this thing.

These are the posts that I like to see, but I must be missing something in your design. What is the through put rate? Is it 300 GPH from your 1200 Maxijet?

What I don't understand is, how can your nitrate drop 40 ppm with such a fast flow through?

If 40 ppm water can pass through/over 5 gallons of sand at a rate of 300 GPH (3 times the volume of your tank per hour in this case), then how does it climb back up to 40 ppm so quickly? If this were true, one could assume your nitrate would escalate up into the hundreds if you took the filter off-line.

 

[bohlke]

Ok so I have read quite a bit of this thread, I currently have a 5G hex tank setup as a mini fuge on my system. I plan to upgrade and this tank was going to be removed but now I plan to use it as a RDSB. I have quite a bit of CaribSea Aragamax Sugar-Sized Reef Sand in my display tank, when I move this tank to the new upgraded tank I plan to use a larger sand bed in the display (sugar size sand is such a pain with high flow). I am assuming I can rinse this sand and then use it for the RDSB?