DSB in a bucket for nitrate control

[Spuds725]

About 1/2 that 1000 hours was spent reading this thread

(Sorry, couldn't resist)

Marcello... I think I remember you posting before but couldn't remember your info, nor how long ago you posted--- thanks for posting back.....

I meant this for other people too--- for the length of this thread there are suprisingly few updates...

 

[Savatage]

Okay guys. A couple people have said that they would like details on setups. I will give the best I can on mine.
My bucket is a 20gal that stands only 16in high. The diameter size is awsome. More contact time. My plan is to use my drain from my skimmer. I run a SuperSkimmer 65. The drain is 3/4" outlet. I am plumbing 3/4" into the bucket and 1" for the drain. I am putting 100lbs of Quickcrete Fine grain Sand in the bucket. My plumbing will be 6" above the sand level. With the amout of water coming in, the sand surface should stay in tact, and if it doesn't, it will eventually groove out to a point of not being bothered anymore.

I just bought so HQI Double Ended 150w MH yesterday. I am running them only 2 hours a day and increasing the time by 1hr each week. When I reach my six hours of run time, I will be moving my tank to a different wall and starting my RDSB. When that time comes, I will test my Nitrates and give you all the readings. I will test every week and give you all the readings and this should better help to get an idea on a time span with a 12" deep RDSB at a 19" diameter.

Total breakdown. 20gal bucket, 16" deep, 19" diameter, 6" water, with fine grade silica sand. If I change anything I will update you all.

I am looking for any comments though. I would appreciate any optional ideas.

 

[skjardel]

Going on 8 weeks with no change

Going on 8 weeks with no change

Setup my RDSB the end of Dec. 6 quart rectangle plastic trash can. Fitted 3/4" bulkheads at each end. Input hole as high as I could manage and output hole approx 2 inches below input. Filled with oolitic aragonite sand about 2 inches below output hole. Used 30 lbs of sand with 160gph powerhead. Nitrates at 50 when started currently at 25 since I did 70% water change 4 days ago and Nitrates climbing day to day.

 

[skjardel]

Correction 16 quart trash can on previous post

Correction 16 quart trash can on previous post

Correction to my previous post - apologies

 

[Fred_J]

Barry,
With that kind of research on the many different methods of nitrate control you should consider writing a paper. At least do an article for reef keeping magazine. There are people with Ph.D.'s in marine biology who have not spent that much time on nitrates.
I do believe that an easy form of nitrate control is one of the last frontiers of reef keeping. I remember in the early 70's some people had trouble understanding the magic of air stone driven protean skimmers.
Fred

 

[Bill Shultz]

skjardel,

Have you done any water changes in the 8 weeks or just this recent 70% one?

 

[conorwynne]

I would not use beach sand, read somewhere you can get silicate leaching - googleit.

I'm planning on adding Live sand to a converted rena external cannister. It holds about 18 ltr, but my tank is only 100ltr. It currently runs without any prefilters, just contains a single large piece of LR. I was planning to add LS to it for nitrate removal.

Opinions welcome.

 

[Savatage]

Opinion here. I have been running silica sand for a year and it is doing better than my southdown did.
Are you talking about the same type of silica leaching here. I never had an algae prob with mine at all.

 

[captbunzo]

Silica leaching is a myth. Google it...

 

[Savatage]

I know it's a myth. I proved everyone who says it'sa problem, wrong. I have had 5" of cheap Handy Man's silica white in my sump for nearly a year. The thread is about RDSB and I am going to stick with the thread, but as for silica.......I am going to be running Quickcrete silica sand in my RDSB starting real soon.
My RDSB will have about 100lbs and my main will have 6" of the same sand, and my sump will have 6" of the Handy Man's sand.
I think I will have one heck of a solid DSB running quite healthy.

As for the RDSB, I am hoping it will do wonders for the setup. I have no detectable Nitrates or Phos, with very little GHA. It has been slowly going away. Hopefully the RDSB will halp keep the tank healthier.

 

[skjardel]

I've done two 70% water changes since adding my RDSB. One water change this past weekend and one two weeks ago. As mentioned its been 8 weeks since I started the RDSB and after the water changes my Nitrates creep back up to 50. Also reduced the quantity of food fed by 50% (feed once a day). Tank is barebottom and is totally clean. Running a Euroreef Skimmer model 6-2 and started using poly filters and purigen to try to help. Tank is a 75gal with two clowns, cardinal, manadarin, chromis & goby. Numerous softies - mushrooms, zoos, star polyps, leathers and a LPS frog spawn. There is approx 75-90 Lbs of live rock in the tank. Lighting is 520 watts of PC's which are 50/50 daylight & actnic. Using Eheim 1262 return and have a Tunze 6000 stream in the tank. Also using RO/DI water for my water changes with Ocean Pure salt which tests at 0 Nitrates.

I'm interested to hear from others that have had success with their RDSB to determine how long it took before the Nitrates started to drop and any details on their setup. I'm starting to get inpatient and don't want to abandon the RDSB if I can get a sense that I just need to hold on a few more weeks.

Just as an fyi I just built a coil denitrator and I'm considering giving this a try.

Apologies for the long reply but thought it could help with the discussion.

 

[Savatage]

I consider myself to know a good bit about the hobby, but excuse me for asking, but what exactly is a coil denitrator????

 

[Spuds725]

skjardel....

Sounds like you are doing everything right-- good flow, bare bottom, great skimmer (is it skimming good)...

Do you have someplace where detritus might be getting caught or settling??

Have you considered a filter sock (and changing it every day or so)-- might trap some detritus allowing you to export it....

Hopefully it (the RDSB) will start helping soon. The only comment I have it that with only 30 pounds it might be a bit small

Do you have room for a macro refugium (to try and pull out some nitrates that way)...

Please keep us updated (hopefully with a success story).

 

[Bill Shultz]

Savatage,

Could you give us an idea about how long it took for you to start achieving your zero readings for both Nitrate and Phos once you put the RDSB's into the loop. Weeks? Months?

 

[Savatage]

BILL:

Sorry, but I haven't put it in yet. I have been battling GHA for almost a year now and there is still quite a bit of it in my tank. I also have some cyano.

I know I am getting zero readings because the algae is eating it up. If I was at zero, I know I wouldn't have the algae problem.

My bucket will be running this weekend. When the algae starts to die quicker, then I will know it is working. Get this though.....My container is a little different than any other I have heard described on here so far. I am using a 16" deep container with a 20" diameter. This will give me more surface contact. I will keep everyone updated weekly on my RDSB.

Remember one other thing. I am going to be using something that I haven't heard anyone else try yet. I am using Sugar Fine Silica Sand by Quickrete. With no larger sand in top to compensate for water flow.

 

[Bill Shultz]

skjardel,

I'm also wondering like Spuds if you maybe have something else in the loop that could be a potential problem. Do you have a wet/dry filter or canister filter that you are not mentioning. . . I'm gathering you have a sump but I don't see anything else listed? Or do you just depend on the LR for your biological filtration?

 

[skjardel]

Savatage...
A coil denitrator is more or less a reactor where the water slowly makes it way through a 50-75' coil of tubing (within the reactor) stripping away the oxygen and then the water moves to the center space in the coil where there is bio media where anaerobic bacteria can form now that there is little oxygen in the water thus removing Nitrate from the water. Here is a link to a better explanation and DIY plan
http://saltaquarium.about.com/library/blank/bldondiydenitratornew.htm

Spuds725...
I can see a fair portion of the bottom of my tank where my stand is open on the bottom and haven't been able to locate any spots of accummulating detritus. Also I moved the entire tank across the room 5 months ago so I know everything was cleaned out at that point. I started using a filter sock about three weeks ago and it gets cleaned every other day. Unfortunately I don't have room in my cabinet for a refugium or to expand my RDSB to hold additional sand. Thanks for the additional thoughts.

I'll keep everyone posted

 

[skjardel]

Bill...
I don't have a wet/dry or canister just a 30 gal sump and rely on the LR. The good news is I don't have much if any hair algae.

 

[Fred_J]

skjardel-- Your tank is very close to my set-up, except my nitrates are coming from my CC bottom. I do have 150 lbs of very dense live rock. I don't understand why your live rock isn't taking care of your nitrates (unless you need more LR). Your setup sounds like all your parameters should be perfect. If you do find out what is causing the nitrates to rise so quickly please let me know.
Thanks
Fred

 

[boris MAC]

OK, people, but how can be sure that at one point this deep sand bucket will not start producing H2S? When in absence of food bacteria in the botom layers will start to use H as a food producing H2S?