Dsb's work, what makes them work best?

[inwall75]

I believe I mentioned this on this thread (I could be wrong though). Whether you utilize Southdown, storebought live sand, sand taken from the ocean, aragonite sand ground up from mined sources, etc., it is going to have phosphates bound to it. You can't get away from it.

Knowing that this phosphate is already there, the key is to avoid as many inputs as possible to prevent making this issue worse.

Barry, I've done tests. This stuff is ULTRA-HIGH in phosphates. If on a brand new silica sandbed which does not bind phosphates, I might not mind it. On an aragonite bed, I have a different opinion.

OK....good points Sindjin, where does the pH level drop low enough for de-adsorption to occur?

 

[inwall75]

I think and/or type too slow.

 

[barryhc]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6529907#post6529907 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by inwall75
I think and/or type too slow.

You're just being nice Curt, remember last time? :lol:

I'm at work too, but I'm worthless, so I can get away with it!

Does it make any sense yet, why I'm interested in Silica sand ? ?

> Barry

 

[inwall75]

Certainly,

The buffering capacity of aragonite is sooooo overblown that it's amazing. It's practically non-existent.

With that said, silica will scratch the living daylights out of acrylic tanks so that's an issue. It is also rough on glass tanks if you aren't careful about magnet scrapers.

 

[Sindjin]

OK....good points Sindjin, where does the pH level drop low enough for de-adsorption to occur?

below 8.2, actually. I believe I read that in Randy's PO4 article, btw. This is in relation to the bond of PO4 and Calcerous substrate...Live Rock, Crushed Coral, Shell Sand, Etc...

 

[barryhc]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6529896#post6529896 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by inwall75
I believe I mentioned this on this thread (I could be wrong though). Whether you utilize Southdown, storebought live sand, sand taken from the ocean, aragonite sand ground up from mined sources, etc., it is going to have phosphates bound to it. You can't get away from it.

Isn't this Phosphate, not only bound "to it", but actually a part of the "composition" to begin with?

Is this also true of Silica sand? ( or Quartz )

> Barry

 

[inwall75]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6530027#post6530027 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by barryhc
Isn't this Phosphate, not only bound "to it", but actually a part of the "composition" to begin with?

Is this also true of Silica sand? ( or Quartz )

> Barry

Nope. It has a similarity to CaCO3 in that there are various forms that have differing solubility. However, in the end, there's no chemical reaction that causes adsorption.

 

[Sindjin]

Wow. So it may not be an overabundance of detritus that is the cause of the DSB Bloom....it could just be from the Lower pH in the deeper part of the sand that causes PO4 to be unbound from the substrate that it originally came in on. Or at least that could be a major contributing factor along with detritus.

Hmmm... well, Im off to the How to go BareBottom Thread.

 

[barryhc]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6530003#post6530003 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by inwall75
Certainly,

The buffering capacity of aragonite is sooooo overblown that it's amazing. It's practically non-existent.

With that said, silica will scratch the living daylights out of acrylic tanks so that's an issue. It is also rough on glass tanks if you aren't careful about magnet scrapers.

So, "WE" could use Araganite, for that "ever so dangerous" upper layer of .5 to 1.5mm stuff that I have been "promoting", to allow high flow, and avoid scratching the glass, and since it is "larger", and therfore has much less surface area, then the "dissolving" problem would not be so bad, and some people think it is "pretty" anyway. ? heh ? Huh? Huh?

> Barry

 

[barryhc]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6530072#post6530072 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sindjin
Wow. So it may not be an overabundance of detritus that is the cause of the DSB Bloom....it could just be from the Lower pH in the deeper part of the sand that causes PO4 to be unbound from the substrate that it originally came in on. Or at least that could be a major contributing factor along with detritus.

Hmmm... well, Im off to the How to go BareBottom Thread.

"SECRET AGENT MAN" :lol:

> Barry

 

[Sindjin]

:lol:

Place MISSION IMPOSSIBLE theme, here

 

[inwall75]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6530072#post6530072 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sindjin
Wow. So it may not be an overabundance of detritus that is the cause of the DSB Bloom....it could just be from the Lower pH in the deeper part of the sand that causes PO4 to be unbound from the substrate that it originally came in on. Or at least that could be a major contributing factor along with detritus.

Hmmm... well, Im off to the How to go BareBottom Thread.

It's harder than that. It's EVERYTHING combined. Hang and read and contribute.

Fish poop that lands on a sandbed and gets eaten by a critter will on average utilize 10% of the nutrients. The rest gets pooped out. Then a smaller critter comes along, eats that poop and takes it's 10% and poops out the rest. Then.....

Well the problem is, none of these critters last forever. When they die, anything they previously had bound internally as organic phosphates are now free for the taking. This is a cycle. It's miniaturized but it is a cycle. Some things happen chemically and some things happen biologically.

There's lots of interesting things that go on in a sandbed and they should be understood IMO.

 

[inwall75]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6530105#post6530105 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by barryhc
So, "WE" could use Araganite, for that "ever so dangerous" upper layer of .5 to 1.5mm stuff that I have been "promoting", to allow high flow, and avoid scratching the glass, and since it is "larger", and therfore has much less surface area, then the "dissolving" problem would not be so bad, and some people think it is "pretty" anyway. ? heh ? Huh? Huh?

> Barry

NOPE

J/k I've done this quite successfully even though I was told it would fail.

 

[barryhc]

> Barry

Doh!

I just "fingered out" the j/k "terminology" while I was "sleepily" hitting the submit key ! ! ! :lol:

 

[inwall75]

Sorry...for others.

j/k = just kidding

 

[barryhc]

So, is "THE FUGITIVE" next, or what ? ? ? :dance:

"FUGe" IT I'VE been "thinking" ?

> Barry

 

[inwall75]

LOL

Been there...done that. I actually prefer stronger skimmers now vs a fuge. If you want to go the other way, that's your choice. It doesn't make your choice nor my mine the wrong one. If you want to discuss why I made my choice, please open another thread and send me a link.

 

[barryhc]

My "primary interest" in a "refugium", is for "food production".

Why would it be "VS", anyway? ?

> Barry

 

[inwall75]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6530557#post6530557 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by barryhc
My "primary interest" in a "refugium", is for "food production".

Why would it be "VS", anyway? ?

> Barry

Nomenclature.....A lot of people have taken 'fuge' to mean a macroalgal scrubber as opposed to it's original meaning. I made a mistake of using the latter definition.

 

[barryhc]

My own "personal" interest in any kind of DSB, is for the habitat, and happiness of the animals that "require or prefer" it, NOT FOR FILTERING REASONS .

That having been said, I sure don't mind making the most out of it, in fact, I insist upon it.

> Barry