Dsb's work, what makes them work best?

[Lobster]

I don't know guys. I'm reading all of this, but I still do not see where anyone can explain some of the supposedly many ways a DSB can deal with phosphate problems. If DSB's are really viable, reliable, and sustainable long-term with no phosphate problems, there should be some reproduceable formula for it. Where can I find this info? The methods in books and articles I've read and tried failed in terms of phosphate control.

When I mention my DSB's algae problems, people tell me I was running my DSB wrong. People say a DSB that is properly run can function great for years without issue. Where are some of the methods documented that are known to work and not result in algae problems. Are there such documents?

removed

 

[Lobster]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6530667#post6530667 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by barryhc
My own "personal" interest in any kind of DSB, is for the habitat, and happiness of the animals that "require or prefer" it.

That's a good point. My opinion at this point is that DSB is a great method, but not for all tanks. My LPS/softie dominated tanks did well with DSB because it was not as sensitive to algae problems. My SPS tank with a DSB was a failure because the algae was just too competitive for substrate, aggravated the corals, and was harder to keep as nutrient poor as I wanted.

People need to be aware of where each method is appropriate and know the benefits and weaknesses of each. For those running SPS tanks with a DSB successfully, I'd like to know what references they use in setting up and maintaining their DSB that resulted in success.

 

[Sindjin]

Lobster,

I agree that their isnt any documentation to PO4 control in a DSB. But I do believe that this thread has produced some fantsastic information and help to educate people on the "cycle" of PO4. At least the issue is being recognized and understood rather than ignored like I feel it has been in the past by other DSB threads.

 

[barryhc]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6530882#post6530882 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lobster
I don't know guys. I'm reading all of this, but I still do not see where anyone can explain some of the supposedly many ways a DSB can deal with phosphate problems.

Geeze Lobster, go have an ice cream cone.

It has just been explained in several different ways.

If DSB's are really viable, reliable, and sustainable long-term with no phosphate problems, there should be some reproduceable formula for it.

And who here has been stating that this is the case?

The methods in books and articles I've read and tried failed in terms of phosphate control.

You can buy more books if it makes you feel better, or read more articles.

Where are some of the methods documented that are known to work and not result in algae problems. Are there such documents?

A lot of those "papers" are "down the toilet".

It bothers me that I am apparently too stupid to run a DSB.

Self-explanatory.

> Barry

 

[npaden]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6530882#post6530882 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lobster
I don't know guys. I'm reading all of this, but I still do not see where anyone can explain some of the supposedly many ways a DSB can deal with phosphate problems. If DSB's are really viable, reliable, and sustainable long-term with no phosphate problems, there should be some reproduceable formula for it. Where can I find this info? The methods in books and articles I've read and tried failed in terms of phosphate control.

When I mention my DSB's algae problems, people tell me I was running my DSB wrong. People say a DSB that is properly run can function great for years without issue. Where are some of the methods documented that are known to work and not result in algae problems. Are there such documents?

I find your post more than a little offensive especially the last paragraph. {EDIT - I removed the last paragraph after the mods removed it from your post}

There have been SEVERAL methods mentioned on how you can deal with phosphates using a DSB. I specifically replied to you earlier and listed several methods to remove phosphates but you really don't seem interested. Please read the thread.

 

[npaden]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6530955#post6530955 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lobster
People need to be aware of where each method is appropriate and know the benefits and weaknesses of each. For those running SPS tanks with a DSB successfully, I'd like to know what references they use in setting up and maintaining their DSB that resulted in success.

You might want to try to read this thread. There are pictures on page 1 and more details on page 3.

 

[barryhc]

"SMASH AND GRAB" .

My PM mailbox is no longer full.

Happy Reef Keeping ! > Barry

 

[Paul B]

OK guys, I have been reading this thread and there are a lot of questions about nutrient export with DSB's, BB and whatever. ( I have my own ideas about how much nutrients you can export but I won't get into that), There is also problems with algae. First of all if you have no algae at all there are two reasons, your tank is not healthy enough or it is not old enough. Healthy tanks grow algae, there is algae in your corals which needs the same nutrients as hair algae. You can not and should not try to eliminate all nitrates, phosphates etc. OK stop gasping. Algae is not a disease and we can't "cure" it, but we don't want to see it on our corals. In the sea algae grows almost as fast as it does in our tanks but there are hordes of herbivores that take care of it. If there were 1000 6" tangs decending on your tank, how long do you think hair algae would be there? This does not happen in our systems because we can't train the tangs to poop outside the tank. In the sea there are bizillions of gallons of water to dilute nutrients and most of that water is deeper than where algae can grow.
We can control hair algae with hair algae. Force the stuff to grow someplace besides in our tank. You can use a lighted refugium but I have a better solution and it's free to operate. I use a shallow trough that sits above the water, to the back and just under the lights. It is tilted so the water runs fast. There is a plastic screen that is infused with cement on the bottom. Hair algae loves cement, it loves swift water, it loves light and it can't live without nutrients. The trough is fed from my skimmer and lighted by my MH lights so it is free to operate. When I get an algae cycle, it grows in the trough and I can roll it up for cleaning and "export". Algae is self limiting, when there arew not enough nutrients, it can't grow anymore. A tank can only support so much algae and I want it in the trough. The algae is happy and so am I.

:beer:

 

[Lobster]

I apologize, but I did not mean to offend anyone in that paragraph except myself. It really does bother me that my DSB tanks have failed (by that, I mean I had algae problems).

I'll just shutup and keep my questions to myself. However, I'd still genuinely like to know what reference those with successful DSB's would reccommend for someone that wants to "do it right" and not have algae problems. There's so much conflicting information out there that I just can't tell what is right and wrong.

Again, sorry.

 

[mhurley]

Lobster,

I removed your off-color comments from your post above. This is a family friendly forum, please remember that.

This discussion seems to be going along fine...Let's keep it that way everyone.

 

[mhurley]

Well timed...Thanks.

 

[npaden]

Lobster,

If you are sincere, the key is nutrient export. This is true no matter what type of tank you are running. The method of exporting nutrients varies however.

I personally use a large refugium with cheato in it. I am now making some nice money by pruning the algae and selling it. I am amazed at the volume of cheato that I is growing in my refugium. The cheato outcompetes any nusiance algae in my tank. If you look at the pictures of my tank you might notice that I really don't have very many snails or other cleanup critters. I'm actually worried that my urchin might end up starving.

Another key is that I think good flow definetly helps but you have to have an export mechanism in place. This is in addition to a large skimmer.


FWIW, Nathan

 

[Paul B]

Nathan, growing algae is exactly what I am talking about, and cheato works nicely. I also have a clean up crew, not because they clean up anything I just like them.
Paul

 

[npaden]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6531276#post6531276 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
Nathan, growing algae is exactly what I am talking about, and cheato works nicely. I also have a clean up crew, not because they clean up anything I just like them.
Paul

Yep. And your post is another example of the dozens of ways to skin the same cat. I saw you mention your algae tray in a different post and it really looks like it works.

 

[barryhc]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6531196#post6531196 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lobster
I apologize, but I did not mean to offend anyone in that paragraph except myself. It really does bother me that my DSB tanks have failed (by that, I mean I had algae problems).

You are not the only one.

I'll just shutup and keep my questions to myself.

First, read PauB's post, and then just stay here. You along with many others have been "subjected to" a tremendous amount of "debate". It is often times not easy to swallow, or to "get over".

Please don't keep your questions to yourself. Try to enjoy the "discussive" atmosphere.

However, I'd still genuinely like to know what reference those with successful DSB's would reccommend for someone that wants to "do it right" and not have algae problems. There's so much conflicting information out there that I just can't tell what is right and wrong.

Stay here Lobster, this is the "New Reference".

> Barry

 

[Paul B]

It has been there maybe 8 months and so far all is well. There is a bunch of algae in the tray and none in the reef. That picture is the prototype I built a much nicer model now.
Take care.
Paul

 

[barryhc]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6531324#post6531324 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Paul B
It has been there maybe 8 months and so far all is well. There is a bunch of algae in the tray and none in the reef. That picture is the prototype I built a much nicer model now.
Take care.
Paul

It looks like a "super easy" DIY as well.

Thanks Paul > Barry

 

[joefish]

Paul ,

What type of corals do you keep ?

SPS's , LPS'S ,softies or a mix ?

 

[barryhc]

Are we ever going to get to the"Rest of the Story", or what ? ? ?

Come on folks, this is where the Nasty Things Occur !

This is what everyone is concerned about, but are still often times unwilling to discuss.

Not from lack of interest in most cases, but because there is not that much of an "open and accepted" understanding of these processes.

This is WHERE IT'S AT FOLKS, come on now, let's get into the "good stuff" !

Come on Curt, "throw us a nugget", heh ? ? ? ?

> Barry

 

[inwall75]

I thought I did with the pH 'nugget'.

As Barry barely alluded to with no brightly colored words, there are lots of things going on down deep in a DSB. Does anyone really understand the processes going on there? Beyond that, is there a reason we should care beyond Hydrogen Sulphide?