Elegance Coral theory

[elegance coral]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10357384#post10357384 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Serioussnaps
The lighting its under is kind of a skewed subject. It is under a 6 foot long tank that has a 400W and 250 W halide over it, however, the lights are about 3-4ft off the surface!!!!They are really up there. Not to mention the elegance is in a far corner of the tank, away from the point source of the MH bulb about 2.5-3 ft horizontally from it. Not to mention the tank is probably 24-30 inches deep. I wouldnt call it high light at all albeit obviously under PC's it will still be less light than it is getting now.

Flow was mentioned by another poster. The flow in my sump is weak sauce...intentionallly. Thats where it would be residing, definitely not in display.

I want to be very careful as this specimen is quite pricey. List price is 250, of course I wont pay this, but will likely be around 200 bucks for it so I dont want to go killing the sucker or having to buy more lighting that would be applicable to the tank I am about to set up.

In my area all you would see at those prices is a X-large Aussie Elegance. I wouldn't put an Aussie in either one of the tanks you are talking about. The flow is to strong in the sps tank and the lights would not be enough in the sump.

 

[elegance coral]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10357435#post10357435 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Serioussnaps
Are you basically saying an elegance that is coming from a high light area in the wild can't adapt well to a lesser lit environment in captivity? and vice versa? I would be more personally concerned with taking a low light/ elegance from deeper water and placing it under more light. This would obviously cause expulsion of zoox but I am not so sure in the other scenario? Maybe you could clarify what you think would happen in either case?

I would go out on a limb and say the specimen I speak of is definitely not a deepwater, but I dont think it came from 4 feet of water either. If i had to guess my t5 lighting would be too much. The area in the tank it is in now is likely much less PAR/PUR than anywhere in the actual display of my system.

I think you pretty much got it. From what I have seen and studied this is how I believe this works. There are different clads of zooxanthellae (algae). These different clads are better suited to different environments. In order for an Elegance coral to survive at greater depths they need to utilize a different clad of algae than the shallow water corals. This clad of algae is not well suited for a bright light environment. They quickly begin producing an excess amount of O2 under bright lights which causes severe damage to the coral. The shallow water corals are utilizing a different clad of algae. This clad has a much wider range of acceptable light than the clad of deep water corals. There is still a minimum and maximum light requirement for these shallow water algae. This is why I doubt that a shallow water coral will do well in your sump. In my tank I have 7 deep water corals and 1 shallow water coral. I have the lights set as strong, and on for as long, as I can without causing my deep water corals to swell up. I have the shallow water coral at the top of the tank where it is getting more light than any of the other corals. It has been in the tank for about 2 weeks and has gone from being almost transparent to a dark brown color. It was not showing signs of bleaching. It was just a healthy shallow water coral. My deep water corals have faded in color as I force them to adjust to brighter lights. I believe they are at there limit. The tentacles of the deep water corals that are more exposed to the light are almost transparent while the shaded tentacles of the same coral are a brown color. So these two corals of the same species in the same tank are acting differently to the same set of lights. The shallow water coral is showing signs of adapting to a dimmer environment while the deep water corals are showing signs of adapting to a brighter environment. Even though the shallow water coral is higher in the tank. I'm not sure how well the shallow water coral will do in this tank in the long term. I may have to move it to a brighter tank. I really would like to leave it in the tank with my deep water corals. Hypothetically, as the shallow water coral regulates the population of algae within its tissues, it could discharge small amounts of it's clad of algae into the water. Hypothetically again, the deep water corals if very close to their maximum light level could retain this shallow water algae. Hypothetically yet again, over time the deep water corals could become shallow water corals. Still hypothetically speaking, the opposite could take place where the shallow water coral could retain the clad from the deep water coral and I would end up with all deep water corals. This would hypothetically stink.
Did any of that make sense?

 

[elegance coral]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10358806#post10358806 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jman77
I feed it mysid and little pieces of silversides. My elegance is doing fine under the 130w CF bulbs,, it's actually grown 2 more mouths while i've had it ....and expands twice the size as when i got it. I'll post some pics tonight

I think we are blasting these corals with too much light and flow.

I'm looking forward to those pics and I couldn't agree with you more about the light and flow.

 

[Znut Reefer]

I got in a sick elegance week before last. I have it in a 24 " tall tank. I'm using 3 250 MH 12K Reeflux and 2 160 VHO actinics. So far the elegance has not recovered any. It s seems to be getting worse. Any advice here?

I have tried feeding it, with no luck. It is not swollen just sunk in looking.

 

[Serioussnaps]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10359908#post10359908 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by elegance coral
I think you pretty much got it. From what I have seen and studied this is how I believe this works. There are different clads of zooxanthellae (algae). These different clads are better suited to different environments. In order for an Elegance coral to survive at greater depths they need to utilize a different clad of algae than the shallow water corals. This clad of algae is not well suited for a bright light environment. They quickly begin producing an excess amount of O2 under bright lights which causes severe damage to the coral. The shallow water corals are utilizing a different clad of algae. This clad has a much wider range of acceptable light than the clad of deep water corals. There is still a minimum and maximum light requirement for these shallow water algae. This is why I doubt that a shallow water coral will do well in your sump. In my tank I have 7 deep water corals and 1 shallow water coral. I have the lights set as strong, and on for as long, as I can without causing my deep water corals to swell up. I have the shallow water coral at the top of the tank where it is getting more light than any of the other corals. It has been in the tank for about 2 weeks and has gone from being almost transparent to a dark brown color. It was not showing signs of bleaching. It was just a healthy shallow water coral. My deep water corals have faded in color as I force them to adjust to brighter lights. I believe they are at there limit. The tentacles of the deep water corals that are more exposed to the light are almost transparent while the shaded tentacles of the same coral are a brown color. So these two corals of the same species in the same tank are acting differently to the same set of lights. The shallow water coral is showing signs of adapting to a dimmer environment while the deep water corals are showing signs of adapting to a brighter environment. Even though the shallow water coral is higher in the tank. I'm not sure how well the shallow water coral will do in this tank in the long term. I may have to move it to a brighter tank. I really would like to leave it in the tank with my deep water corals. Hypothetically, as the shallow water coral regulates the population of algae within its tissues, it could discharge small amounts of it's clad of algae into the water. Hypothetically again, the deep water corals if very close to their maximum light level could retain this shallow water algae. Hypothetically yet again, over time the deep water corals could become shallow water corals. Still hypothetically speaking, the opposite could take place where the shallow water coral could retain the clad from the deep water coral and I would end up with all deep water corals. This would hypothetically stink.
Did any of that make sense?

Makes plenty of sense.

 

[Serioussnaps]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10361306#post10361306 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by znut Reefer
I got in a sick elegance week before last. I have it in a 24 " tall tank. I'm using 3 250 MH 12K Reeflux and 2 160 VHO actinics. So far the elegance has not recovered any. It s seems to be getting worse. Any advice here?

I have tried feeding it, with no luck. It is not swollen just sunk in looking.

Znut...My first inclination is it needs to have less light. That is alot of light for an elegance, which is why I considered just putting one under PC lighting. This brings up another area of concern regarding these corals.....buying from an online vendor. This coral, unlike most others, I would have to see it in person and see it do well in another tank before I considered it(which I am doing) Another thing that tempts me is right now I am lucky enough to do this, however, the specimen is very costly. Ordering an elegance from an online vendor seems very risky particularly when most will sell you a basically dead specimen(it may be alive, but many are doomed).

 

[Znut Reefer]

I do have a refug I can try to move the elegance to tomorrow evening and see if it will recover.

Yes, I bought it from an online vendor and was told it had been doing very well for close to 2 mos. Thats why I took the chance and bought it. I could tell the day I received it, it was not healthy. .

I did contact the vendor since I had a seven day guarantee and I received a credit for the elegance. I don't plan to buy another again online.

I'll post here any good or bad news on the elegance after I move it tomorrow.

 

[elegance coral]

Buying an Elegance from an online vendor is taking a huge risk. Unfortunately these vendors don't know what the problem is with these corals so they expose them to lights that are to bright. They can be damaged so quickly that the pic they show on their web sight may not look anything like the coral you receive. The symptoms of this light exposure occur in stages. A healthy deep water Elegance will swell up and withdraw its tentacles when exposed to bright light. The tissue will be damaged by this exposure causing the coral to withdraw. After the coral begins to withdraw there is a stage where only the area between the mouths and tentacles will swell. When the damage gets severe enough the coral stops swelling up and remains withdrawn. When they reach this stage they are in critical condition. Infection can quickly take over the coral causing its death. Iodine dips seem to really be helping to fight off these infections. They can survive even after such an exposure if they are kept from these bright light environments. My avatar was once completely withdrawn into its skeleton. It has been a long road to recovery and it still has a ways to go, but it is getting much better.

 

[Znut Reefer]

Ok so should I try an iodine dip to see if it helps? Thanks for the reply.

Also, I have never dipped an elegance, so can you tell me what ratio to use for the dips. And how often.

 

[elegance coral]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10365065#post10365065 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by znut Reefer
Ok so should I try an iodine dip to see if it helps? Thanks for the reply.

Also, I have never dipped an elegance, so can you tell me what ratio to use for the dips. And how often.

I have seen very good results with iodine dips. It seems to help very ill Elegance corals even when there isn't any obvious signs of infection. I have no Idea why though. Maybe its like neosporin helping a cut heal faster even when its not infected. There are several iodine based products on the market. I would just fallow the directions on the product you buy. I would not dip the coral often. If it looks real bad I would dip it. I wouldn't dip it again unless it took a turn for the worse.

 

[Znut Reefer]

Ok, I will give it an Seachems iodine dip. There's nothing to loose at this point. I'll post the results either way. Thanks for the help. Hopefully it will help this poor elegance.

Yes it does look pretty bad, wished I had known I would have already tried the dip.

 

[elegance coral]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10365770#post10365770 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by znut Reefer
Ok, I will give it an Seachems iodine dip. There's nothing to loose at this point. I'll post the results either way. Thanks for the help. Hopefully it will help this poor elegance.

Yes it does look pretty bad, wished I had known I would have already tried the dip.

Are you able to post a pic of the Elegance?

 

[Znut Reefer]

Yes I can, I would need to upload it to photobucket first. Whats you email and I will send you a pic of it. And then post it later if you want me to. PM your email.

Thanks

 

[jman77]

here's the pic of mine...got it for 15 bucks at a LFS cause it was almost 100% in coral heaven, now it's grown 2 more mouths and has killed one snail that fell on it ...lol

 

[Znut Reefer]

I don't have a pic of what it looks like now. I will get it and post it after my lights come on later. But here is a pic of it the day after I got it. It looks alot worse now, and all sunken in. I would say it's close to 100% in coral heaven the way it looks now.

 

[elegance coral]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10366635#post10366635 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jman77
here's the pic of mine...got it for 15 bucks at a LFS cause it was almost 100% in coral heaven, now it's grown 2 more mouths and has killed one snail that fell on it ...lol

WOW! There is absolutely nothing wrong with that coral! I wish more people would believe that these corals will survive and be healthy if they were just kept in a lower light environment. I buy sick Elegance corals from my LFS and bring them back from deaths door and the owner will still not change the way he does things. He gets Elegance corals in and cooks them by putting them in the tank with all the other corals like sps's. I guess he still believes that killer protozoans are to blame. Sometimes I think this quest of mine to get the truth about what these corals are going through out to the hobbyists is more than a simple hobbyist can do. I fear that until one of the reef gods come out and tell people that this is the problem, not much will change. People will continue to put these corals in bright light and when they die they will just blame some unknown killer protozoans.

 

[jman77]

yes .... i'm with you on this elegance coral,

When I got the coral home in went straight into the sump, which is lit by 2 x 65w 9700k that are over 3 years old. I can't imagine that the par they are putting out is much at all, and yet the coral bounced back and is growing. Like you said these corals are deep water, and LPS on top of that. They don't need or can handle being put under these intense lights we use now in the hobby. People have to look back to when Elegance corals were considered easy and hard to kill,,, they use RO florescent bulbs and air driven skimmers( if that)

 

[elegance coral]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10366973#post10366973 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by znut Reefer
I don't have a pic of what it looks like now. I will get it and post it after my lights come on later. But here is a pic of it the day after I got it. It looks alot worse now, and all sunken in. I would say it's close to 100% in coral heaven the way it looks now.

I wish you would have found this thread before you got the coral. We would have had a much better chance of saving it. Don't give up though. I have seen them pull through some nasty stuff. Keep it out of bright lights what ever you do. After bright lights infection is the big enemy at this point. I'll check to see if you were able to post the pic in the morning.

 

[Znut Reefer]

Ok, I know wished I had seen this thread sooner too. And I do wish I had not bought the elegance on line. I trusted the vendor when he said it had been doing great for 2 months. Well here is what the elegance looks now. I'll be dipping it in a few mins. I will put it under the PC lighting and see how does. I'll keep up the hope it will pull through.

 

[elegance coral]

It's hard to tell from the pic but it looks like an infection may have already set in. When you dipped it, did tissue come off the coral? It looked like there may be some viable tissue on the far end of the coral. If so you could try fragging the coral to discard the dead and decomposing tissue. I'm sorry, but from the pic it really doesn't look good.