Elegance Coral theory

[leggy]

I recently bought a elegance coral from my LFS for £60 (US$120) as it was near deaths door - looked like znut Reefer first pic ...very sad coral. I normally only go for healthy corals but with elegance in UK, the ban has been lifted for only a few months on these beautiful corals and to see one in such a state was heartbreaking (yes elegance are my favourite coral).
Got her home and placed her in my nano QT for 2 weeks feeding fortified cyclopeze and tiny bits of shrimp and clams. After 2 weeks I placed her in my 50 gal tank 10k T5 lighting - feeding her on fortified mysis, 5mm cut shrimps and razor clams.
She is I believe on the road to recovery - she comes out around 3-4 cm now and seems to have bonded with her skeleton .. really thought she may do a bail out when I saw her in the LFS.
Her green colour is comming back - before she had lost all green colour apart from her tenticles.
She has company at least now with three other elegance - one which had all its pink tips nibbled off by a maroon clown who decided to host her - they are now nearly all back but it was really hard to feed her when she couldnt grab the food as her tips were missing.
They will be all moved to my 200 gal aquarium in the next several months and face the halides - but it will be a very slow proceedure .. but woth it in the end

 

[John Kelly]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10343256#post10343256 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by elegance coral
I picked up 3 very sick Elegance corals from my LFS just over a week ago. I picked them up for $25 each because they were on deaths door. Here are pics of the day after placing them in my tank and at one week.

Day one

week one

Day one

Week one

Week one

They still have a long way to go, but as long as they are improving I'm happy.

Earlier in the thread, I was trying to point to the possibility of a "bleaching" stage that could occur if these corals were being placed under lighting that was too intense. It appears that two of the three that you bought are bleached or at least lacking a good deal of zooxanthellae. The one that still contains some zooxanthellae was probably on it's way to being bleached. Luckily, it looks like the amount of light that they were previously under wasn't enough to quickly damage them. Depending on the intensity of light that the corals are initially placed under, oxidative stress due to way too much light can cause quick damage and an internal sunburn, which would kill the coral a lot faster and also have the potential to cause internal infection, OR if the lighting was still too intense, but not intense enough to quickly fry the coral, the light can cause slow damage which will eventually kill the coral over a longer period of time. With a slower form of oxidative stress, there is usually a bleaching stage where the coral loses it's zooxanthellae first before it forever remains retracted and dies. Less intense lighting and manual feeding of the corals becomes critical when they are bleached.

As your research moves forward, try to see if there is a slight difference in the coloration of the fluorescent proteins between Elegance that are more sensitive to light and less sensitive. The more sensitive corals may contain a little more of a yellowish-green colored protein where the less sensitive corals may have a little more of a blueish-green colored protein. It would be nice if a subtle but visible difference could be established between shallow and deep water Elegance (ie. purple tips vs. pink tips).

 

[John Kelly]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10367009#post10367009 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by elegance coral
I fear that until one of the reef gods come out and tell people that this is the problem, not much will change.

That's not going to happen for a long time. They have to prove it to themselves first, and even then they won't give credit or link to any of your threads. Calfo will eventually incorporate it into the advise he gives out when asked about Elegance. He's good about gathering correct information, adding it to his collective, and dispensing it around the world.

EDIT: Write an article and submit it to ReefKeeping mag and Advanced Aquarist's mag. Also, if you put enough info together, you could give a presentation at IMAC or MACNA.

 

[elegance coral]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10371216#post10371216 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by John Kelly
That's not going to happen for a long time. They have to prove it to themselves first, and even then they won't give credit or link to any of your threads. Calfo will eventually incorporate it into the advise he gives out when asked about Elegance. He's good about gathering the correct information, adding it to his collective, and dispensing it around the world.

I know that none of the reef gods would say that I had anything to do with them changing their minds. I doubt that any of them will publicly change their position on this at all. I'm not doing this for some pat on the back. Most people don't even know my real name. This is my coral, and I honestly just want people to be able to keep them alive. If it means that some reef god takes all the credit for the research I have done than so be it. They are in a much better position to get the truth out to the hobby than I am. It would be nice to be recognized for the work I have done, but I agree with you. That's not going to happen. After going all over the web telling people that the gods made a mistake, they aren't going to be telling people that I was right. I hope your right about Mr. Calfo but I have my doubts. I don't know him personally so I can't speak of what he will or will not do. I find it hard to believe that any of the gods want to be the first to say that they were all wrong on this. There is a lot of politics involved. It wouldn't be a good Carrier move to go against the other gods no matter who you are. I think they must know about this thread, but I haven't seen any of them take part. So, I guess I'll just keep saving a few corals here and there and find a way to be content with knowing I'm doing all I can. If I can come up with the money I will start a sight similar to yours WWW.goniopora.ORG (plug ). Then I should be able to reach more people.

 

[tangwang]

Darrell, you have pm..

 

[Serioussnaps]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10368363#post10368363 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by znut Reefer
Ok, I know wished I had seen this thread sooner too. And I do wish I had not bought the elegance on line. I trusted the vendor when he said it had been doing great for 2 months. Well here is what the elegance looks now. I'll be dipping it in a few mins. I will put it under the PC lighting and see how does. I'll keep up the hope it will pull through.

Never trust online vendors! I always hear "oh hes a great guy." Makes me sick...I dont care what vendor it is...it is a business. Sorry for the rant..I just get sick of the onine touters on here sometimes:smokin:

 

[Znut Reefer]

I did dip the elegance last night. And have put it under PC lighting to see if it may recover. No when I dipped it no tissue came off. Just some slime. That was Elegance poop or something. But did not look like tissue when it was dipped.

It does look very bad. Maybe I can beat the infection?? I'll keep you updated.

 

[jman77]

znut,

if it were me , i would leave it alone in the sump and wouldn't dip it again. I think dipping will do more harm than good at this point

 

[Znut Reefer]

Hi jman,

Ok, I only dipped it last night for the first time. I won't dip it again and see how it fairs. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Serioussnaps]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10375839#post10375839 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by znut Reefer
Hi jman,

Ok, I only dipped it last night for the first time. I won't dip it again and see how it fairs. Thanks for the advice.

Good luck Fonda

 

[Znut Reefer]

Thanks Serioussnaps. Sure looks like I'm going to need it. I don't have much hope for it at this point.

 

[elegance coral]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10371095#post10371095 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by leggy
I recently bought a elegance coral from my LFS for £60 (US$120) as it was near deaths door - looked like znut Reefer first pic ...very sad coral. I normally only go for healthy corals but with elegance in UK, the ban has been lifted for only a few months on these beautiful corals and to see one in such a state was heartbreaking (yes elegance are my favourite coral).
Got her home and placed her in my nano QT for 2 weeks feeding fortified cyclopeze and tiny bits of shrimp and clams. After 2 weeks I placed her in my 50 gal tank 10k T5 lighting - feeding her on fortified mysis, 5mm cut shrimps and razor clams.
She is I believe on the road to recovery - she comes out around 3-4 cm now and seems to have bonded with her skeleton .. really thought she may do a bail out when I saw her in the LFS.
Her green colour is comming back - before she had lost all green colour apart from her tenticles.
She has company at least now with three other elegance - one which had all its pink tips nibbled off by a maroon clown who decided to host her - they are now nearly all back but it was really hard to feed her when she couldnt grab the food as her tips were missing.
They will be all moved to my 200 gal aquarium in the next several months and face the halides - but it will be a very slow proceedure .. but woth it in the end

I recently posted a thread in the Uk Aquarium Fish Forum. I was a little shocked to learn that there was a ban on Elegance corals over there. I'm glad to hear that you were able to rescue one of these corals. It sounds like you already know this, but be very careful when increasing the lighting on your new coral. She will be very sensitive to increases in light.

 

[elegance coral]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10372224#post10372224 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Serioussnaps
Never trust online vendors! I always hear "oh hes a great guy." Makes me sick...I dont care what vendor it is...it is a business. Sorry for the rant..I just get sick of the onine touters on here sometimes:smokin:

I agree with you on this. I have been all over the web and some of the claims these online vendor are making is sickening. Selling sick Elegance corals and giving them a different scientific name in an attempt to explain why the coral looks different than others. Showing sick corals and saying "Its a healthy coral, just a little ticked off in the pic". This ticks me off to no end! I have however recently met an online dealer in person. This one dealer doesn't sell Indo Elegance corals because of the poor survivability of these corals. He does sell Aussie Elegance corals, but if they are frags he holds them until they have completely healed from being fragged. I have seen his stock and he takes very good care of his animals. From what I can see it seems like in this one case he is a hobbyist that has decided to turn his passion into a business. I don't think I am allowed to plug a business here in the forums, but if someone is looking for a reputable online vendor, I would have no problem referring people to this one sight through PM. The other sights, I wouldn't give them a dime of my money.

 

[gsellers1245]

i think you are talking about matt right? in bartow. Matt is great and does get all aussie stuff now and his stuff is top notch. He has a guy in NY and he shipped him the blue tips elegance and did extremely well. He also fed it every night when he closed up shop. I would recomend everyone to go through matt.

 

[Serioussnaps]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10377440#post10377440 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by elegance coral
I agree with you on this. I have been all over the web and some of the claims these online vendor are making is sickening. Selling sick Elegance corals and giving them a different scientific name in an attempt to explain why the coral looks different than others. Showing sick corals and saying "Its a healthy coral, just a little ticked off in the pic". This ticks me off to no end! I have however recently met an online dealer in person. This one dealer doesn't sell Indo Elegance corals because of the poor survivability of these corals. He does sell Aussie Elegance corals, but if they are frags he holds them until they have completely healed from being fragged. I have seen his stock and he takes very good care of his animals. From what I can see it seems like in this one case he is a hobbyist that has decided to turn his passion into a business. I don't think I am allowed to plug a business here in the forums, but if someone is looking for a reputable online vendor, I would have no problem referring people to this one sight through PM. The other sights, I wouldn't give them a dime of my money.

I am glad to see someone agrees with me. This is just one thing among many that sickens me. As long as there are ignorant hobbyists there will be opportunists waiting in the wings.....I will refrain from shouting out names.

 

[DrDNA]

elegance coral - your inbox is full

 

[elegance coral]

CRAP! I'll clean it out right now. Sorry about that.

 

[elegance coral]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10371120#post10371120 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by John Kelly
Earlier in the thread, I was trying to point to the possibility of a "bleaching" stage that could occur if these corals were being placed under lighting that was too intense. It appears that two of the three that you bought are bleached or at least lacking a good deal of zooxanthellae. The one that still contains some zooxanthellae was probably on it's way to being bleached. Luckily, it looks like the amount of light that they were previously under wasn't enough to quickly damage them. Depending on the intensity of light that the corals are initially placed under, oxidative stress due to way too much light can cause quick damage and an internal sunburn, which would kill the coral a lot faster and also have the potential to cause internal infection, OR if the lighting was still too intense, but not intense enough to quickly fry the coral, the light can cause slow damage which will eventually kill the coral over a longer period of time. With a slower form of oxidative stress, there is usually a bleaching stage where the coral loses it's zooxanthellae first before it forever remains retracted and dies. Less intense lighting and manual feeding of the corals becomes critical when they are bleached.

As your research moves forward, try to see if there is a slight difference in the coloration of the fluorescent proteins between Elegance that are more sensitive to light and less sensitive. The more sensitive corals may contain a little more of a yellowish-green colored protein where the less sensitive corals may have a little more of a blueish-green colored protein. It would be nice if a subtle but visible difference could be established between shallow and deep water Elegance (ie. purple tips vs. pink tips).

My camera sucks! One of the corals is definitely bleached. It has been left with only its photosynthetic pigments visible. The other two are very dark brown. The photosynthetic pigments are different colors in the two corals though. What I find a little odd is that of these three corals the bleached one seems to be recovering the fastest. I agree with you 100% on the whole bleaching thing. The only difference I have noticed is that sometimes they bleach and sometimes they don't. It doesn't matter if it is a rapid and drastic exposure that causes the damage or if it is a prolonged exposure, like a light cycle that is set a little to long. Some of these corals discharge their algae and others don't. They all seem to experience the same tissue damage though. In the other corals I have worked with (none as extensively as Elegance corals) they seem to handle light exposure exactly as you describe it. I don't know why some of these Elegance corals don't discharge their algae when exposed to damaging light. I believe this is the reason for the confusion around the Elegance coral sickness. If all of them were bleaching everyone would know it is a lighting issue.

I have been trying to find some characteristic that we could use to differentiate between the sensitive and less sensitive corals. I have been unable to come up with anything that works in all cases. The only thing that seems to be reliable is if the coral polyp is expanded several times the size of the skeleton. Like 4 or 5 times the size, and has a pale or semitransparent appearance, it is a shallow water coral and has a very wide range of light it can adapt to without damage. Other than that there doesn't seem to be anything that can help us. There seem to be other corals that utilize the same clad of algae as the coral I just described but have a much darker appearance. I would assume that they came from a slightly deeper or more shaded area. Allot of people put quite a bit of emphasis on the color of the tips of the corals tentacles. I have fried them all. This doesn't seem to have any bearing on the corals survivability.
Most other corals dont have the ability to survive in the drastically different environments that Elegance corals can. I have read articles that put these corals living from just a few feet below the low tide line down to 114ft. Most other corals have a much smaller area they can survive in. I believe that there success can be contributed to the use of different clads of algae. I don't believe that the same clad of algae can survive at both ends of the Elegance corals range. This makes it hard on us when we try to find the correct environment to place our Elegance in.

 

[gsellers1245]

something came to mind.....what about the ones coming from very muddy nutrient rich water. Ive seen a yellow elegance that was found completely buried in mud. Would this be a possible bleacher? I think that the bleaching just goes back to where the specimen was collected the depth the environment as well as the water quality

 

[elegance coral]

week 1

week 2

week 1

week 2

week 1

week 2

It is a slow process and my camera stinks, but I don't think this is bad for 1 week. It's a huge improvement over day one.