Elegance Coral theory

[elegance coral]

I would start moving the lights down now. How does the coral look? Is it expanding well when the lights come on and withdrawing slightly when they go off?

Yes, eventually the coral will stop feeding. Over feeding an Elegance can cause it to actually not receive as much nutrition as it would with regular feeding in my opinion. If the coral has a half digested meal inside it and you feed it again in the same mouth it may regurgitate all of the food. The food enters and the undigested particles are discharged through the same opening. Elegance corals are not like us, where we can eat meal after meal and it just passes out the other end. There is a cycle of feeding and discharging that takes place with these corals. I do not believe that these corals can discharge remains of one meal and retain another meal. When it comes time to discharge the remains of a meal, I believe the coral discharges the entire content of that "stomach". To keep this cycle functioning properly I believe we would need to give the coral time to digest its meal and discharge any indigestible food before we try to feed them again. This is simply my opinion based on my experience and not proven scientific fact.

 

[dla2000]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10688406#post10688406 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by elegance coral
I would start moving the lights down now. How does the coral look? Is it expanding well when the lights come on and withdrawing slightly when they go off?

Yes, eventually the coral will stop feeding. Over feeding an Elegance can cause it to actually not receive as much nutrition as it would with regular feeding in my opinion. If the coral has a half digested meal inside it and you feed it again in the same mouth it may regurgitate all of the food. The food enters and the undigested particles are discharged through the same opening. Elegance corals are not like us, where we can eat meal after meal and it just passes out the other end. There is a cycle of feeding and discharging that takes place with these corals. I do not believe that these corals can discharge remains of one meal and retain another meal. When it comes time to discharge the remains of a meal, I believe the coral discharges the entire content of that "stomach". To keep this cycle functioning properly I believe we would need to give the coral time to digest its meal and discharge any indigestible food before we try to feed them again. This is simply my opinion based on my experience and not proven scientific fact.

Well the mouths are kinda sunk in, not all the way down, just slightly. You can see them and the polyp part of the coral sometimes act as if was reaching.

I plan on bring the lights down tonight when they go off.

I'll post a pic of it tomorrow.

 

[dla2000]

oops

 

[dla2000]

Here's a pic of what the elegance coral looks like right now. To me it looks like it is reaching.

It don't look like this all the time.

 

[elegance coral]

Has it opened more after you lowered the lights?

 

[elegance coral]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10686698#post10686698 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by syrinx
I appreciate the work that you have done, and it seems to be a good avenue to go down. I have had my own misgivings about the "pathogen" being the problem in these corals. I am a long time propigator, and I remember when halides came out, and the protien skimming thing really took off- the elegances started to have problems. In fact tanks that had kept healthy Es for years with UG filters, crushed coral and normal output flo bulbs- suddenly had problems when the upgrades started. As far as other research goes, I have read them- and find them lacking. I was also disappointed in the one where the fund drive was started and nothing ever came of it. If someone wants to open a tinfoil hat shop- I am all for them doing it- but I am not going to finance it. Others chose to and now all there is- is half finished research and hypothisis- that others choose to use as facts to dissuade further study. Keep up the good work- keep learning and sharing- and keep yourself grounded and real. Only people who feel themselves to be experts have trouble relating and educating. People that are interested in continually learning from anyone and anything they can are the ones that share their knowledge while doing so and thus are the true educators.

WOW! Thanks for the kind words and the advice. I'm not trying to get people to think of me as one of the "reef gods". I am simply a hobbyist like everyone else. Most people seem to think that I'm a little obsessed with Elegance corals though . Elegance corals represent a very very small portion of the hobby. I got my first Elegance about 18 years ago. My infatuation has continued to grow from then. I have spent this time learning as much as I could about this coral. I have had them spawn and I have attempted to raise the larvae. I will soon be resuming this research. When it became obvious that no one was going to truly investigate the Elegance coral problem, I felt that I had to do something. I had to know for myself how to keep these corals alive. At the time everyone was saying it was a disease and they were all doomed. I could not take this as the true fate of this incredible animal. All I'm trying to do now is let people know what causes this problem, and how to give their coral the best possible chance to survive. Nothing will change with this coral until people realize what the problem is. If they don't change the way they collect and house these corals we will continue to have these problems.


I don't remember when MH's first came out, but I can remember when they were very rare in the hobby. I had to mail order my first MH light bulb because you could not find them in central Florida at the time. 5000 was the highest kelvin temp available, and I got an old used high pressure sodium ballast to power the light with. I mounted it in the center of a standard 55gl tank, because they didn't put center braces on tanks back then.

 

[CMcNeil]

elegance coral.....can you give me a little advice.our LFS has some very nice aussie elegance and id really like to get one for my new tank.the problem is i think i may have too much flow and lighting,plus i have a BB setup.is it possible to have one with the BB?for lighting i have three 250w 14k mh and two 48" vho actinics.flow is 2 darts one on a loop and one return and a wavebox.is the flow and lighting too much?

 

[dla2000]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10694416#post10694416 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by elegance coral
Has it opened more after you lowered the lights?

Nope looks the same. I just lowered it about 5".

But, right now it is really small. A little while ago it balled up (not swelled up) and started to pump a few times and little brown stuff came up through the tentacles and the water current took it away.

What do the elegance coral's waste look like when it expel it out?
I see some small bown stuff on the elegance.

I'll post a pic in a few mins.

 

[dla2000]

Here's the pic.

I think it was just expelling its waste. What do you think.

 

[elegance coral]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10695166#post10695166 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by checkinhawk
elegance coral.....can you give me a little advice.our LFS has some very nice aussie elegance and id really like to get one for my new tank.the problem is i think i may have too much flow and lighting,plus i have a BB setup.is it possible to have one with the BB?for lighting i have three 250w 14k mh and two 48" vho actinics.flow is 2 darts one on a loop and one return and a wavebox.is the flow and lighting too much?

I haven't seen or heard of the Aussie Elegance corals having the problems the Indo Elegance have. If you can find a spot that is not directly under one of the MH's the lighting should be okay. I keep all my Elegance in a BB tank, and have been doing so for many years. As long as the tissue around the top edge of the skeleton in not pressed against the rocks the coral will be fine. I don't know what size your new tank is so its hard to tell how strong the flow is. If you can find a spot that is slightly protected from strong flow, I think it's doable. The flow should be strong enough to just move the tentacles. If the flow is so strong it would move the whole polyp I wouldn't try an Elegance. Good luck, and let us know how it goes if you get one.

 

[elegance coral]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10695499#post10695499 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dla2000
Here's the pic.

I think it was just expelling its waste. What do you think.

It's hard to tell, but given the amount of food you gave it I wouldn't be surprised if it was just waste. They can withdraw quite a bit when they expel waste, so hopefully this is what it was doing. I would still drop the lights some more. I would bring them down at least half way and see how it reacts. We can be pretty confident that it's not receiving to much light at this time. If it was discharging algae it would most likely be caused by not enough light. It looks pretty good in the last pic you posted .

 

[dla2000]

Ok. I lowered the lights some more.

The next I will put the legs back on the light fixture and put it on top of the tank.

 

[elegance coral]

This is a video of my aquarium. On the right side you will see a very swollen Elegance with it's tentacles withdrawn. Right next to this coral is a larger very healthy Elegance showing no signs of this condition. The coral front and center looked like the one on the right at one point. Most of these corals are healing from the Elegance coral problem. The one in the back, where I tried to zoom in, was ill to the point that an infection set in. You can see the portion of the skeleton where the infection killed the polyp. This took place in this aquarium with the other Elegance corals. It is healing nicely now. I zoomed in on the bleached Elegance trying to show that the algae and the photosynthetic pigments are coming back. It doesn't show up very well on the video though. Most of these corals have been very ill in this tank with the other corals. I have added these sick corals over a long period of time. Outside of the three I bought at once, these corals have been added one at a time. There are 10 all together in this 29gl tank. I have never had a swollen Elegance cause the other corals to begin swelling. This is not the environment that would lead me to believe there is a highly contagious species specific pathogen at work. None of these corals have or will become ill because the swollen Elegance is in the tank.


http://sharkle.com/video/137873/

 

[John Kelly]

Great video Darrell! Your research is coming along nicely. Working out a solid theory and creating a good portfolio of time-based evidence makes it REAL HARD to argue against. :thumbsup:

.....We'll eventually see who the "Joe Plumber" is. :lmao: (inside joke)

 

[Mental1]

Hi Darrell -- I enjoyed looking at your video. Thank you so much for posting it! Mine is still looking good but I am not confident about whether or not it is eating. Several times a week I cut up small pices of krill and get it caught in the tentacles but then it seems as if I see the pieces walking away in the claws of a hermit. I have not seen it expel waste since the time it did it because it was unhappy. It also gets some food when I feed the fish as it is right under where I put the food in. When they are starving -- do they do the same thing? Withdraw and get short tentacles? It looks happy most of the day but as you mentioned -- towards the end of the day it starts to expand and the tentacles get short. I added the actinics for an extra hour and it was not happy with me! The actinics are on for 10 hours now and full light is only on for 4. The lights are still 6 inches above the tank, it's 24 inches deep and it is on the sand bed. I just hope that I am doing a good job!

 

[elegance coral]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10709463#post10709463 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mental1
Hi Darrell -- I enjoyed looking at your video. Thank you so much for posting it! Mine is still looking good but I am not confident about whether or not it is eating. Several times a week I cut up small pices of krill and get it caught in the tentacles but then it seems as if I see the pieces walking away in the claws of a hermit. I have not seen it expel waste since the time it did it because it was unhappy. It also gets some food when I feed the fish as it is right under where I put the food in. When they are starving -- do they do the same thing? Withdraw and get short tentacles? It looks happy most of the day but as you mentioned -- towards the end of the day it starts to expand and the tentacles get short. I added the actinics for an extra hour and it was not happy with me! The actinics are on for 10 hours now and full light is only on for 4. The lights are still 6 inches above the tank, it's 24 inches deep and it is on the sand bed. I just hope that I am doing a good job!

Crabs are evil:mad2: ! All my hermit crabs have been evicted and sent to the refuge/purgatory. They will steal food from your Elegance every chance they get. You will most likely continue to have this problem until they are separated. I'm not sure if you have seen this or not, but this is a video of me feeding my Elegance. Maybe it will help. A little wiggle of the food in the tentacles usually helps.

http://www.sharkle.com/video/132056/

Your coral isn't swelling after the reduction in photo period is it? You are doing a good job. The coral seemed to have improved after you moved it, and you are doing all that can be expected to provide it with a good home.

 

[Mental1]

It seems to be adjusting to the light -- the full lights are only on for four hours versus five but the actinics are on for 10 versus 9. It still looks a bit unhappy at the end of the day but hopefully it will adjust. Maybe if I push the food down closer to the mouths the crabs won't get it! Thanks for the reassurance -- I need it! What are the signs to look for if it is not getting enough food?

 

[elegance coral]

Maybe if you gave the crabs some food before feeding the Elegance it would give your coral time to feed. I would simply remove the crabs. Can you post a pic of the Elegance at the end of the day when it is unhappy? Healthy Elegance corals will begin to withdraw somewhat at the end of the day. This is normal. They will remain this way until the lights come back on in the morning. If it is swelling at the end of the day, then it is getting to much light.

 

[Mental1]

That's what I did yesterday -- gave them food but it takes the Elegance so long to get the food down to its mouth that the crabs ate what I gave them and then robbed the Elegance! I will post a picture later today when I get home ...

 

[dla2000]

My elegance coral is looking not so good, should I bring the lights back up?

Here's a pic of the elegance coral at about 3 am this morning

Here's a pic of the elgance coral at 12 noon

It's not swelling up I don't think and no brown stuff are coming out of it's mouths. I read somewhere that they go thru phases, is this one of them?