Emergency! Mystery disease magnificent foxface
- Thread starter LisaD
- Start date
When you transport the fish to a vet try to avoid exposing the fish to the air as much as possible. Catch the fish in a clear plastic bag or specimen container and lift it out of the tank and into the bucket. The fish is going to be out of the water getting an xray. The longer it is exposed to the air the less change of survival. An airstone with a battery powered air pump would be a good idea for the transport bucket. Not sure what Paragon Two will do to help your fish. I would really use a good antibiotic and a good dose. Remember some antibiotics have to be used at stronger doses in hard water (i.e. saltwater). Do not force feed.
Terry B
Terry B
Terry, thanks for the advice. I have been moving the fish, when necessary, in a specimen container. I am bringing a battery powered air pump as well as a carboy of water to replace spilled/splashed water or do a partial water change in the bucket if necessary. I live about 60 miles from the vet, will bring fish into work, go to the vet for a 2:00 appointment, then go home.
Bob Fenner strongly recommended metronidazole and praziquantel. Others recommended various antibiotics. I am not seeing the typical signs of a bacterial infection - neither external nor systemic. I had a tough time deciding between what several respected and experienced people advised, and Paragon II seemed to be the closest to incorporating advice from several people I consider experts.
What Paragon II contains:
Metronidazole
Furazolidone
Neomycin Sulfate
Naladixic acid
I am using the recommended dose for saltwater (2X freshwater dose of 1 tsp/20 gallons). What I am really doing is flying blind. There are good reasons to follow your advice, or Puffer Queens, Bob Fenner's and others. But they tend to conflict. It's really all just guess work at this point.
So I am taking the fish to this practice in order to get a recommendation on what, if any, treatment may be effective.
I do have gentamycin, kanamycin, neomycin, triple sulfa, tetracycline (I know, not great for salt water). Rather than continuing to treat blind, I'll hope I get the fish to the vet in time for them to examine and make recommendations based on clinical evaluation.
I do appreciate your help very much. I am not one of those to ask for and ignore advice. It's just that I've received a diversity of conflicting advice from several people whose opinions I respect.
Bob Fenner strongly recommended metronidazole and praziquantel. Others recommended various antibiotics. I am not seeing the typical signs of a bacterial infection - neither external nor systemic. I had a tough time deciding between what several respected and experienced people advised, and Paragon II seemed to be the closest to incorporating advice from several people I consider experts.
What Paragon II contains:
Metronidazole
Furazolidone
Neomycin Sulfate
Naladixic acid
I am using the recommended dose for saltwater (2X freshwater dose of 1 tsp/20 gallons). What I am really doing is flying blind. There are good reasons to follow your advice, or Puffer Queens, Bob Fenner's and others. But they tend to conflict. It's really all just guess work at this point.
So I am taking the fish to this practice in order to get a recommendation on what, if any, treatment may be effective.
I do have gentamycin, kanamycin, neomycin, triple sulfa, tetracycline (I know, not great for salt water). Rather than continuing to treat blind, I'll hope I get the fish to the vet in time for them to examine and make recommendations based on clinical evaluation.
I do appreciate your help very much. I am not one of those to ask for and ignore advice. It's just that I've received a diversity of conflicting advice from several people whose opinions I respect.
It could be fluids accumlating that is causing the bloating. I am more inclined to think it is internal gas building up. A vibrio species of bacteria is the most likely offender. Some bacteria give off gas as a by product of metabolism. If you treat with one or several antibiotics they won't help much if the doses are not right.
The vet may not be able to give you a definative answer as to the pathological bacteria. Fish with bacterial infections tend to have a population increase in other non-pathogenic bacteria at the same time. You probably need to grow a culture of the bacteria and perform sensitivity testing with several antibiotics. Not sure if the vet will get a good sample considering the infection is internal. They might try using a needle to extract a sample from the bloated area. The best thing to do may be to give the fish an injection with a good antibiotic that is effective agaisnt gram-negative bacteria.
Best wishes,
Terry B
The vet may not be able to give you a definative answer as to the pathological bacteria. Fish with bacterial infections tend to have a population increase in other non-pathogenic bacteria at the same time. You probably need to grow a culture of the bacteria and perform sensitivity testing with several antibiotics. Not sure if the vet will get a good sample considering the infection is internal. They might try using a needle to extract a sample from the bloated area. The best thing to do may be to give the fish an injection with a good antibiotic that is effective agaisnt gram-negative bacteria.
Best wishes,
Terry B
I think you are right, definitely internal gas buildup (causing the floating). It is hard to tell where it is coming from, but my guess is the swim bladder. Hoping to know for sure today.
The reason I started out with Neomycin and Sulfa is that I have used them with some success against Vibrio in seahorses.
I will request an injection. I know they will take skin scrapings, but agree that unless they can get an internal sample, it will be difficult to know the pathogen. I have some experience culturing bacteria and using antibiotic disks to assay sensitivity to antibiotics.
Thanks again for the good advice.
The reason I started out with Neomycin and Sulfa is that I have used them with some success against Vibrio in seahorses.
I will request an injection. I know they will take skin scrapings, but agree that unless they can get an internal sample, it will be difficult to know the pathogen. I have some experience culturing bacteria and using antibiotic disks to assay sensitivity to antibiotics.
Thanks again for the good advice.
Update:
-Fish had an X-ray, swim bladder badly distended and full of gas
-Assumption is systemic bacterial infection affecting swim bladder
-Vet aspirated 6 cc air
-Gave a shot of Baytril
-Gave me Baytril to put in daily 5 hour bath for 5 days
-Fish is stressed, not eating, but not floating right now due to some air being removed
I'll check back in with an update over the weekend
-Fish had an X-ray, swim bladder badly distended and full of gas
-Assumption is systemic bacterial infection affecting swim bladder
-Vet aspirated 6 cc air
-Gave a shot of Baytril
-Gave me Baytril to put in daily 5 hour bath for 5 days
-Fish is stressed, not eating, but not floating right now due to some air being removed
I'll check back in with an update over the weekend
IMM3DOORSDOWN
New member
awesome link.gotta save it.hope i dont need it but just being on the safe side.
Sounds like what I expected to happen when you took the fish to the vet. Interesting choice of antibiotic. It is a good wide-spectrum antibiotic frequently used with pigs, cats and dogs. Not that much information on using it with vibrio bacteria in saltwater fish. The number one suspects for bacterial infections in saltwater fish are bacteria from the vibrio family. This medication is known to be effective against Pseudomonas bacteria. Baytril is a big gun and it does work quickly. It will probably work fine if the fish is still strong enough to survive. I would like to know if the medication affects the pH of the water in your dip. I hope the fish recovers quickly. I would not feed it the first day.
Terry B
Terry B
Never had time to do the bath, the fish died this morning. Some other friends questioned Baytril in a bath. The vet (it is a specialty exotic animal practice and does treat fish) felt Baytril was a good choice. Well, I tried. When I get the X-rays, I'll try and post them.
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