Everything id Dying. I think my new tank has Ich???

[falonchristie]

We lost a clownfish yesterday. This morning we woke up and the filter was off. we shook it around a little bit and it came right back on. I did a water change yesterday and when i plugged back in the filter it started back but must have lost water. The clownfish that died had a spot on it and I looked a pics of ich and thought it might just be salt b/c it was only in one spot. Here are pics of the other clownfish. I posted thread yesterday about carpet anome. there were brown balls in its mouth. Well today i realized it is the little tentacles on the anemone are coming off of it and dying. What should I do. This is my last livestock left besides a few shrimp and snails. Is this ich and what do i do. I really cant loose my anemone. Help please.

 

[cjilge]

check your water parameters first! ph, nitrates, phos, alk, mag, amonia, etc. do water changes quickly. as far as the fish go you will have to catch them and put them into another tank for QT and treatment. the meds to to treat ich will kill your inverts. It does look like ich from what i can tell. post your parameters and I'm sure smarter peeps than me will chime in. GOOD lUCK!

 

[falonchristie]

check your water parameters first! ph, nitrates, phos, alk, mag, amonia, etc. do water changes quickly. as far as the fish go you will have to catch them and put them into another tank for QT and treatment. the meds to to treat ich will kill your inverts. It does look like ich from what i can tell. post your parameters and I'm sure smarter peeps than me will chime in. GOOD lUCK!

okay. i did a %20 water change last night. I should do another one right now?? tested my tank and i have amonia 0, nitrate .5, nitrite 0, hardness 12dkh, phosphate 0.5, ph 8.4, salinity 300, calcium 420 these are the results from last night. My husband left to go get this kordon ich attack 100% natural and it says safe for reef tanks. will this hurt my anemone? I have a 10 gal and some old actinic lights i can put ontop of it and set it up for saltwater. I'll have to get a heater. if you think that this medicine will hurt my anemone let me know and i'll set up the 10gal. but my question is that will the carpet anemone have ich since the clownfish does and it swims in it constantly? the anemone is loosing tentacles around the center and should i treat it too or leave it alone

 

[gws76]

Refresh my memory. I've been doing this salt thing for awhile. But for the life of me, I cannot figure out what salinity 300 means? I understand 1.025 - 1.026 on a refractometer. Must be ppm.

Your fish definitely has either ich or brook. Pics are to fuzzy for me to differentiate. Either way, that's a serious case.

I don't trust any medications in my reef tank, so don't take the chance of killing your whole tank. Treatment should be done in a separate hospital tank. As far as your anemone having ich, NO it does not. Read up on ich, that way you can treat the fish in a hospital tank, and allow the main tank to break the cycle.

How long has this tank been set up?

 

[falonchristie]

Refresh my memory. I've been doing this salt thing for awhile. But for the life of me, I cannot figure out what salinity 300 means? I understand 1.025 - 1.026 on a refractometer. Must be ppm.

Your fish definitely has either ich or brook. Pics are to fuzzy for me to differentiate. Either way, that's a serious case.

I don't trust any medications in my reef tank, so don't take the chance of killing your whole tank. Treatment should be done in a separate hospital tank. As far as your anemone having ich, NO it does not. Read up on ich, that way you can treat the fish in a hospital tank, and allow the main tank to break the cycle.

How long has this tank been set up?

opps sorry salinity is 1.024. my tank has only been set up a few months. I just tested the water again since last night and everything is good except only thing off is nitrate is 20ppm. ill treat clownfish in another tank. im wondering why my carpet anenome is loosing tentacles.

 

[Lightsluvr]

Photos aren't clear, but here is what came to my mind:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-07/sp/feature/index.php

LL

 

[gws76]

Not sure on the nem. Loosing tentacles is not normal. Sounds like a parameter is out of whack. Maybe someone with more knowledge of anemone will get on here.

 

[pwhitby]

Hi Falon,

ARe you absolutely sure the anemone is losing tentacles, what I see looks exactly anemonbe waste to me, it will look like small stringy brown particles.

Your fish is definitely infected with what looks like an extreme bad case of ich, or brooklynella. The latter is very bad and will wipe a tank out in a few days.

Under no circumstances should you ever treat an entire tank, always remove the fish to a QT tank. I also have never heard of anyone having any success with any of the so called medications on the market. You are by far better isolating the fish and bringing the water salinity/SG down to 1.009 for a few weeks. You absoutely have to have a refractometer to do this. Its referred to as hyposalinity if you want to read more about this approach.

I would also repeat your tests as well, if things are going out of whack the parameters may be changing even more...so please keep us posted.

I saw that you said that your tank is a few months old. Did you let it cycle? how much live rock and sand, and what types do you have. My reason for asking this is that fish diseases are often exacerbated by stress, the stress usually comes from poor water quality- which results from inadequate filtration. Your results are inline with a functional tank- but Im trying to see if we can find a cause and pin it down. I also remember you said that you had lost a few critters as well recently? what was that and when.

Finally- what are you using for top off water ? RoDi water?

Sorry for all the questions...

Paul.

 

[falonchristie]

Hi Falon,

ARe you absolutely sure the anemone is losing tentacles, what I see looks exactly anemonbe waste to me, it will look like small stringy brown particles.

Your fish is definitely infected with what looks like an extreme bad case of ich, or brooklynella. The latter is very bad and will wipe a tank out in a few days.

Under no circumstances should you ever treat an entire tank, always remove the fish to a QT tank. I also have never heard of anyone having any success with any of the so called medications on the market. You are by far better isolating the fish and bringing the water salinity/SG down to 1.009 for a few weeks. You absoutely have to have a refractometer to do this. Its referred to as hyposalinity if you want to read more about this approach.

I would also repeat your tests as well, if things are going out of whack the parameters may be changing even more...so please keep us posted.

I saw that you said that your tank is a few months old. Did you let it cycle? how much live rock and sand, and what types do you have. My reason for asking this is that fish diseases are often exacerbated by stress, the stress usually comes from poor water quality- which results from inadequate filtration. Your results are inline with a functional tank- but Im trying to see if we can find a cause and pin it down. I also remember you said that you had lost a few critters as well recently? what was that and when.

Finally- what are you using for top off water ? RoDi water?

Sorry for all the questions...

Paul.

okay i may be wrong on the tentacles. but the inside hole opened up and this white part came out like a big ball which could have just extended the inner part to look different and i noticed parts that were missing tentacles. like gaps between other tentacles. which then led me to think that that was the brown balls that were there b/c before that i thought it was poop. yesterday i lost my other clown. i tested and did a water change. nitrate was a little off and phosphate a little. .5 on both before i did the water change right after i removed what was left of the clownfish. i wondered if the anemone was was was killing things so i moved all the the rock and restacked it to give a big space of just sand around the carpet anemone. 2 days ago i found a emrald crab dead next to the anenome so that is why i had the concern. 2 weeks ago i added about 30 more lbs of live rock from an individual. which then found bristle worms, asteric star fish, snails ect. i didnt know what bristle worms were and freaked out over that. i tested the levels every other day after adding more rock and a goby and a blue star died a week ago (last saturday 29th)which i think was caused by a amonia spike b/c it was the first time i tested and had some amonia in tank. i was already told the star wouldnt make it and to enjoy it while it lasted but the goby should of been fine. i did a water change every friday. i have 60lbs total of rock in tank, live sand, 1 emrald crab, turbo and margarita snails, few hermit crabs, coral banded shrimp and pepermint shrimp along with ich clown and carpet anemone. so basically i added more rock 2 weeks ago. a week later the blue leakia star died and goby. few days after that a crab and now the clown has ich. but my levels have been fine for the past week except nitrate 20ppm thats it and everything else is fine. i did however have the rock out of saltwater in a bucket while transporting home. this could be it but my levels have been good so i dunno. im new to this and i hope i am cut out for it b/c every day lately it has seemed like one thing after another and i have no clue what im doing. the book i have read dont help me with anything i have been experiencing lately. and im frustrated b/c i want to be ready to start frags on the 19th and be ready for a few of them but i dont want to get some and those die as well. good news my anenome looks like its in good spirits now and its opened back up good and looks normal so maybe that critter is okay with no problems. I have taken guppies out of my 10gal and have added salt and meds. i mix tap water with salt. and add teaspoon of stress zyme as well. I herd this was okay. i hear 50/50 on the water thing so i just wasnt sure and go with the easy route. is that bad to use tap and mix with salt? i have mixed up my salt in 10 gal. i am waiting until it cyles to add the clown but he really needs to get out of big tank . he is not looking good at all. well sorry to write so much i just wanted to let you know everything to maybe understand b/c i dont. thanks for your help. im new to learning how to use a forum and also this hobby as you can tell. it helps so much to be able to get on here and have people answer questions [B[/B]

 

[pwhitby]

There was the magic words... Tap Water. Its an absolute no no with Oklahoma city water. It contains such high levels of stuff like chloramines and other compounds that it can literally burn fish. Its not a major problem with FW fish, but it really does a number on SW fish.

I would really advise you to get RoDi water from a local store if you can- or even Ro water. This will really help you.

Also- ALL water needs to be mixed and stirred for 24hrs before it is used. This allows all the chemicals to become balanced and the pH stabilized prior to adding. If you dont do this the water parameters in the tank will go haywire for a while before settling back.

While this will not help the clown right now, following these simple rules will really help you in the future.

Paul.

 

[kadence696]

if you do have ick i have used seachem kanaplex in my mixed reef tank with lps sps and softies and have never had any inverts corals or fish die do to dosing with this and have cleared up the ick problem more then once (due to new fish being introduced be for i had a qt tank). follow instructions after dosing says to do a water change i follow the directions to the T. so i am guessing some will say you cant but i have had great results, no guarantees it will work for u just giving info from my personal experience

 

[zxanth]

Also if u do water changes make sure u have a spare heater set to the temp of the existing tank so that there will not be a temp. Swing which can cause stress to the fish.

Good luck and if u can help it don't introduce fish for awhile until 2 wkd after visual signs of ich is seen. I think that is the life cycle, others please add because I can't remember if that is the life cycle.

 

[lauremf2002]

+1 on everything Paul said. Also, dont add the stress zyme, just my opinion. And speaking from experience, a 10g is not large enough for a qt tank. Remember, that in a qt you will not have the added biological filtration from sand and rock so you will need a seriously heavy duty filtration system and need to have lots of saltwater ready to do frequent water changes. Since you do not have a qt set up and cycled already, I worry that moving your already stressed and seriously sick fish into an even newer tank than the one he is in will only make matters worse. The reason your fish has ich is because of the little mini cycle you had. Most all tanks have ich present, but a healthy fish has enough slime coat to prohibit the bugs from attaching. When they are stressed from things like the presence of ammonia, nitrates etc. their slime coat is compromised and they become suseptible to ich. The best thing you can do right now is get your tank parameters in line. Your nitrates are fine as long as they stay under 20ppm any nitrites over a long period of time can kill fish and ammonia will kill fish. Also, I am willing to bet that your inverts all died because of the tap water. They are very sensitive to copper and most city water runs through copper pipes at some point. Ergo, dont use it. So if I were you I would just work on the tank you have and get a 20g set up as a qt for future use. I have had fish come back from serious bouts with ich with no treatment. And I killed a fish by putting into a 10g quarantine that was newly set up. This is just my 2 cents. Im sure some people may disagree with me but, IMO you shouldnt put a sick fish into a new 10g QT. It will only stress him out more. If you want, I can lend you a 37 g and a marineland 280 filter. I would fill it with water from your tank, and do very frequent water changes. Pm me if you need the tank, sorry this is such a long post. I have had my share of experiences in this department.

 

[falonchristie]

+1 on everything Paul said. Also, dont add the stress zyme, just my opinion. And speaking from experience, a 10g is not large enough for a qt tank. Remember, that in a qt you will not have the added biological filtration from sand and rock so you will need a seriously heavy duty filtration system and need to have lots of saltwater ready to do frequent water changes. Since you do not have a qt set up and cycled already, I worry that moving your already stressed and seriously sick fish into an even newer tank than the one he is in will only make matters worse. The reason your fish has ich is because of the little mini cycle you had. Most all tanks have ich present, but a healthy fish has enough slime coat to prohibit the bugs from attaching. When they are stressed from things like the presence of ammonia, nitrates etc. their slime coat is compromised and they become suseptible to ich. The best thing you can do right now is get your tank parameters in line. Your nitrites are fine as long as they stay under 20ppm any nitrates over a long period of time can kill fish and ammonia will kill fish. Also, I am willing to bet that your inverts all died because of the tap water. They are very sensitive to copper and most city water runs through copper pipes at some point. Ergo, dont use it. So if I were you I would just work on the tank you have and get a 20g set up as a qt for future use. I have had fish come back from serious bouts with ich with no treatment. And I killed a fish by putting into a 10g quarantine that was newly set up. This is just my 2 cents. Im sure some people may disagree with me but, IMO you shouldnt put a sick fish into a new 10g QT. It will only stress him out more. If you want, I can lend you a 37 g and a marineland 280 filter. I would fill it with water from your tank, and do very frequent water changes. Pm me if you need the tank, sorry this is such a long post. I have had my share of experiences in this department.

awww i wish i had read you post earlier. I already placed the clown in the 10gal. But he was just staying in one spot in my 55gal and now he is swiming all over the 10 gal so that is kinda a good sign. I added the organic ich meds. I 2 reg filters for a 10gal and i put air stone in as well. I did test my 55gal a little while ago again today and it looked like it had a little amonia in it. I had already done a 20% water change a few hours before so this amonia came after the 1st test. I didnt know if it would help doing another water change. Is there something i could do to get rid of amonia. My carpet anenome looks stressed then he looks okay and then back to stressed. I think im more stressed than him right now. so now i just have to wait and see and im going to check my parameters a few times a day now to see whats going on. thanks for all your help and everyone else for the advice.

 

[falonchristie]

well anenome just died .. i tested and i think there was little amonia in the tank but its hard to tell on the color chart. if there was it wasnt much and also some nitrite. small amount.

 

[pwhitby]

Are you sure its dead, they will often completely retract and look totally lifeless, unless it is falling to pieces, leave it for a while.

P.

 

[falonchristie]

Are you sure its dead, they will often completely retract and look totally lifeless, unless it is falling to pieces, leave it for a while.

P.

it was weird acting all day and its insides came completely out and it was so bad looking. it excreated some slime. my husband said lets just throw it out before we wake up to it a big nasty mess in the tank so we threw it out before we went to bed and it sucked onto the net a little bit while pulling it out and we wondered if we should wait but it was a gonner im sure.

 

[madkat]

wow sorry for the losses, Paul is by far the expert here, but I would reccommend you put nothing else in this tank until you leave it for at least 6 weeks, I think with your tank still being a month or so old, you are over burdening what little bio life is in there. I would also reccommend never more than a 10% water change bi weekly for the for 10 weeks of your tank being setup. With more water changes than that I think you prolong the cycling time of your tank, thus making it longer before you can put in your first fish. I also would not add any stars or anenome's until your tank is a year old. Just not enough in the tank to keep it alive.

 

[Glazner]

I think you would benefit from having a good local fish store to work with. I would strongly recommend you going by Aquariums at 1702 N Kelley. Leighanne has lots of experience, honest, will test your water, and probably has anything you need for your tank. You can also purchase water(rodi i think) for around $1.50 for 5 gallons. She will definitely get you back on track. She made my start up go off without a hitch (as long as I listened to her and not other stores) I couldn't have done it without her and Tyler. You have to go slow and you will learn patience in this hobby. Good luck on getting things back in order. This is a wonderful hobby!!

 

[mskohl]

Don't lose hope or interest. there can be a lot of setbacks in this hobby, but you will learn quickly and recover.

Many of us have been there and the members of this club will help you get through it. I'm sorry for your losses too.

I think it was early for the anemone, and your clowns may have been sick when you bought them. However, it doesn't seem like your tank was ready for such a huge influx of life. And, that, itself may have been the cause of your problems.

When you start to add animals to your tank, you should do so very slowly. At least a few weeks in between until you have had animals in there for a good 6 months. Sensitive invertebrates shouldn't be added until closer to a year.

As a point of discussion, and often heated debate, I believe ich exists in every tank, you just have to minimize the stress the fish is under so that he is able to fight it off. Water quality is going to be your number one stressor for fish. keep testing. Find a friend who can take a sample and test using their test kits. see if your results match.

As others have said, take lots of time, and go slowly. It'll work out and you'll learn a lot in the meantime.