Evolution and Coral

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12426033#post12426033 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cutegecko3
That would be defined as being discovered in 2007.There are four jellyfish now known from the cambrian but we had no knowledge of their morphology because they normally fossilize in sandy sediment as formless blobs.Last year some were found that were very spectacular and it put that type of jellyfish back 200 million years sooner than we previously knew.

Neat! I'd be very interested to see the references :D

Just to put into perspective though, the existence of jellyfish in the cambrian isn't new, but it would be interesting if folks found fossil evidence of some early jellyfish.

Chris
 
I have no idea what species it is,but science daily has an article online that shows a picture of a living jellyfish next to the fossil.It is really preserved that good.
 
Thanks to everyone that posted, my paper on evolution was turned in weeks ago and glad that I chose such an interesting topic for everyone. Based on what I read of "..the beagle" chapter 20 on Keeling island had little to do with evolution and coral, but more related to the geology of the islands and how volcanic activity and ocean current is the reason for reefs and the many atolls. Darwin was basically the first to make the connection of how they developed.
Since jellysih lack hard parts would that not make them near impossible to fossilize unless it went under some sort of carbon replacement? Was it true jellyfish that came along in the late precambrian to early cambrian. Then if colonial corals didnt really come about until the silurian, then would that not end the debate about which came first the medusa or the polyp? Any thoughts?

Also, to nearly quote a very intelligent being I know, if you do not believe in evolution, then you do not believe in biology, then you do not believe in human processes, then you do not believe in modern medicine, and then you wouldnt believe in the prescription pills you are taking or anyone that is operating on you.
 
actually a recent genetic study that measured the mutations in mtdna shows the comb jellyfish as the first organism to evolve.That completely contradicts evolutionist predictions because comb jellys are very complex organisms even possessing a nervous system.Your intelligent freind must beleive in evolution because he doesnt beleive in testable observation.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12469975#post12469975 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cutegecko3
actually a recent genetic study that measured the mutations in mtdna shows the comb jellyfish as the first organism to evolve.That completely contradicts evolutionist predictions because comb jellys are very complex organisms even possessing a nervous system.Your intelligent freind must beleive in evolution because he doesnt beleive in testable observation.

Oh good lord...

No one has EVER suggested that ctenophores were the first organisms to evolve because such a claim is entirely ridiculous. Ctenophores evolved during the cambrian, about 3 billion years AFTER life emerged on Earth. Ctenophores evolved well after simpler organisms, exactly as one would predict.

Recent evidence suggests that ctenophores may be more basal in the evolutionary history of metazoans than we would have thought. This is surprising, no doubt about it, but doesn't in any way contradict an evolutionary origin. Rather, the new evidence simply suggests that the split between ctenophores and other metazoans ocurred EARLIER than we suspected. Dunn et al., also confirms many relationships that had been suspected (e.g., ecdysozoa is a good clade, lophophorates are aligned with molluscs and annelids, etc.). One thing the study absolutely DOES NOT do is suggest that these organisms did not evolve. Indeed, it confirms evolutionary relationships that were suspected and generates one surprising result in an area that we know is poorly resolved.

To suggest that this evidence contradicts in any way the fact of evolution is incredibly dishonest.
 
I would like to see some evidence,dna,or fossil that backs up your claim.You people do go on evidence dont you?Claiming a evolutionary link is present before that is what i call incredibly dishonest.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12470672#post12470672 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cutegecko3
I would like to see some evidence,dna,or fossil that backs up your claim.You people do go on evidence dont you?Claiming a evolutionary link is present before that is what i call incredibly dishonest.

Evidence: one example is Dunn et al., 2008, which you reference two posts above...
 
MCsaxmaster,
I applaud your persistence in combating the biologically challenged, something that many of "us" gave up on a long time ago.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12474174#post12474174 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by KingDiamond
MCsaxmaster,
I applaud your persistence in combating the biologically challenged, something that many of "us" gave up on a long time ago.

Ha, well there's nothing more spectacular to me than science, and especially biology. It is an intricate and wonderful thing, and one simply cannot understand biology without an understanding of evolution. It is THE uniting principle. It is mysterious and subtle. Our understanding of it is one of the greatest achievemants of human history. How could I not help to bring understanding of such a thing to others? :D
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12474301#post12474301 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MCsaxmaster
Ha, well there's nothing more spectacular to me than science, and especially biology. It is an intricate and wonderful thing, and one simply cannot understand biology without an understanding of evolution. It is THE uniting principle. It is mysterious and subtle. Our understanding of it is one of the greatest achievemants of human history. How could I not help to bring understanding of such a thing to others? :D
Nothing wrong with that.As long as you start bring it to people based on empericle evidence instead of nonsense.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12475254#post12475254 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cutegecko3
Nothing wrong with that.As long as you start bring it to people based on empericle evidence instead of nonsense.

Ha, well I try to avoid nonsense as best I can ;)
 
^+1, same as I was thinking, instead of using thousands of books of biological evidence and findings, gecko might want to stick to one book that is completely based on nothing but superstition and 1900 year old beliefs.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12477062#post12477062 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by thecichlidpleco
^+1, same as I was thinking, instead of using thousands of books of biological evidence and findings, gecko might want to stick to one book that is completely based on nothing but superstition and 1900 year old beliefs.

Taken up skating so soon Kevin?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12479174#post12479174 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by marmaladecat
This is why if I had to do this project, I would have stuck with the finches....

Ha, but the finches are so overplayed ;) Besides, Darwin barely talks about them in The Origin of Species because he was convinced people wouldn't understand what he was talking about. Instead he used relatively "simpler" (= less speciose) examples.
 
<a
Also, to nearly quote a very intelligent being I know, if you do not believe in evolution, then you do not believe in biology, then you do not believe in human processes, then you do not believe in modern medicine, and then you wouldnt believe in the prescription pills you are taking or anyone that is operating on you. [/B]


OK, in all defense to those who may have a limited understanding of exactly what evolution means for the greater advancement of human understanding, let avoid bad logic that further inflames other people.

Rejecting evolution does not completely reject biology, modern medicine (modern medicine might be better if there was no evolution because microbes would not become resistant to antibiotics), chemistry (pills) or the understanding of the human body. While evolution does have the better evidence, lets avoid flawed arguments.

While evolution is an important part, if not a foundation for many of our professions, we can not expect for those who have no association or dependence on evolution to always understand or accept what biologist and similar fields accept as a (near) universal truth. For individuals who do not depend on evolution or this type scientific thought or their profession, rejecting the basic principles in which they do not understand may enable them to feel less inadequate or confused. This happens in all fields, regardless of evolution, biology, theology, and philosophy. (Just think of all the newbies that reject good experienced advice in this hobby). For our fellow machinist, evolution does not affect his day to ay activity and therefore he/she has no dependence or constant exposure to it. Rather, he/she rejects it and defends a concept that he/she has been taught to defend their entire life. Now, if we turned this around, if biologist attempted to convince the machinists of the world to used unacceptable tolerances or materials, then we would see a similar reaction. The biologists would be flamed for their ignorance by the machinists.

While I am not suggesting that we avoid fields that are not our specialty, we should not assume we know THE answer about everything.

In my field as a transportation planner, I know that the personal automobile (especially SUVs) is ruining the American city and the environment. However, I can not come out and say that the average commuting individual is wrong, ignorant, or stupid. The American public deeply believes in the automobile and does everything in its power to protect it. (Heck look at my avatar…hahahaha) When I suggest transit (which I do use) or better land use policies, people do become rabid and think only of their known way of life. Just like creationism, this is all some people have been trained to think and will defend it to extremes. Those who are enlightened about how evolution and biology interact cannot rip people out of what they have known. It is scary for individuals to reject a certain aspect of their learned existence and accept something that is alien to them. (Try to convince someone to use/fund transit when they have never used it in their life) What we know is comfortable and what we don’t know is uncomfortable. Europeans can show us how transit can work but for Americans, it just is not acceptable because we do not always use it in our daily existence. It is the same with evolution.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12481483#post12481483 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Poorcollegereef
OK, in all defense to those who may have a limited understanding of exactly what evolution means for the greater advancement of human understanding, let avoid bad logic that further inflames other people.

Rejecting evolution does not completely reject biology, modern medicine (modern medicine might be better if there was no evolution because microbes would not become resistant to antibiotics), chemistry (pills) or the understanding of the human body. While evolution does have the better evidence, lets avoid flawed arguments.

While evolution is an important part, if not a foundation for many of our professions, we can not expect for those who have no association or dependence on evolution to always understand or accept what biologist and similar fields accept as a (near) universal truth. For individuals who do not depend on evolution or this type scientific thought or their profession, rejecting the basic principles in which they do not understand may enable them to feel less inadequate or confused. This happens in all fields, regardless of evolution, biology, theology, and philosophy. (Just think of all the newbies that reject good experienced advice in this hobby). For our fellow machinist, evolution does not affect his day to ay activity and therefore he/she has no dependence or constant exposure to it. Rather, he/she rejects it and defends a concept that he/she has been taught to defend their entire life. Now, if we turned this around, if biologist attempted to convince the machinists of the world to used unacceptable tolerances or materials, then we would see a similar reaction. The biologists would be flamed for their ignorance by the machinists.

While I am not suggesting that we avoid fields that are not our specialty, we should not assume we know THE answer about everything.

In my field as a transportation planner, I know that the personal automobile (especially SUVs) is ruining the American city and the environment. However, I can not come out and say that the average commuting individual is wrong, ignorant, or stupid. The American public deeply believes in the automobile and does everything in its power to protect it. (Heck look at my avatar…hahahaha) When I suggest transit (which I do use) or better land use policies, people do become rabid and think only of their known way of life. Just like creationism, this is all some people have been trained to think and will defend it to extremes. Those who are enlightened about how evolution and biology interact cannot rip people out of what they have known. It is scary for individuals to reject a certain aspect of their learned existence and accept something that is alien to them. (Try to convince someone to use/fund transit when they have never used it in their life) What we know is comfortable and what we don’t know is uncomfortable. Europeans can show us how transit can work but for Americans, it just is not acceptable because we do not always use it in our daily existence. It is the same with evolution.

Saying that evolution does not reject biology is like saying chemistry can work perfectly fine without electrons. Sure I don't know anything about being a transportation planner that doesn't not give me the right to make up lies about your profession and tell you that you don't know what your talking about. I just think problems are caused by people who are completely ignorant on a subject that spout their beliefs as fact, when the facts actually contradict there beliefs.
 
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