Experts: To Sump or Not to Sump?

[ReefKnot]

I realize this is one of the most commonly asked questions here, and if I searched it, I would find MANY posts about it. However, I was hoping for some personalized advice from the pros. To be noted, I'm reefing on a budget, so I wont be going out to spend money on non-essentials right away, I'm in no rush.

I have a 29g which has been going for about 3 and a half months (5 weeks were cycling). It has 30lbs of LR, 2 perculas (juvenile 1 1/2" - 2"), 1 cleaner shrimp, 4 blue leg hermit crabs, 12 small/medium turbo snails. I have a HOB Marineland Penguin 200 filter, 2 Koralia Nano Reef 240gph powerheads and a heater in the tank.

I also have an empty 10g tank, a MaxiJet 900 (230 gph) I'm not using, a second heater, and a small HOB filter, not sure its specs.

I was wondering what the benefits to having a sump or refuge are, and what they do precisely. If I were to decide to add one, what would I need in it (I'd like to get a skimmer going in it) and more importantly how I would go about setting it up. I have no intentions of cutting holes in my tanks, so how do I go about doing this?

And I guess the final question is, is it worth it? Or should I use that tank for something else once I get back to work and can put some money into it?

Thanks

 

[SnowManSnow]

Well at only 10 gallons your MAIN + will be getting equipment out of your display IMO.

You can put your skimmer, heaters, and anything else down there to keep it tucked away.

There will be some to argue with me, but I personally don't feel a fuge in a 10g is going to be of any significant benefit.

B

 

[Paul B]

My reef is running 40 years with no sump so to answer your question, no you don't need one.

 

[ReefKnot]

So aside from getting my filter and heater out of my tank, and a skimmer if and when I get one, a fuge would do very little? S

 

[kzooreefer]

My reef is running 40 years with no sump so to answer your question, no you don't need one.

I love it. I have the same size DT as the OP and was wondering the exact same thing about a sump. I saw Pauls B's post on the 40th birthday of his DT then saw his post here and it pretty much made up my mind not to get one. The only benefit I saw was to get the equipment out of the DT and a place to do my dosing and water top offs. Which I use a HOB filter for now.

 

[jefathome]

The #1 reason to use a sump (at least in my opinion) is to NOT have to use a HOB skimmer. I can't count the number of times that I've added something (red-slime remover for example) and my skimmer went nuts, overflowing within 15-20min. Oh... another one is when I use 2-art epoxy for securing frags.

With a HOB skimmer all that water ends up on your floor. With an in-sump skimmer all the overflowing water just goes back into the sump. No mess, no foul.

Plus you can get all the nifty equipment... an added bonus.
Is a sump NEEDED? NO Are they beneficial? With out a doubt, YES!!

 

[ReefKnot]

I love it. More opinions! But how would I pump the water in/out of my DT? with pipes hanging over the top?

 

[Rocdoc]

I love it. More opinions! But how would I pump the water in/out of my DT? with pipes hanging over the top?

Yeah, unless you drill the tank and install an overflow, you'd end up replacing the HOB filter with a HOB overflow.

You'll have a tough time getting a fuge out of that small of a sump. Basically, you'd be looking to dump the water in there, skim it, heat it, add whatever (top-off water, supplements, etc) to it, and pumping it back into the DT. It would clean up the clutter in your DT a little and provide a little protection for the skimmer overflow. It wouldn't really add much volume to the system as you won't be able to put a full ten gallons in it (more like 3-5 gallons).

 

[ReefKnot]

Yeah, I think it was more for the equipment, skimmer and get that stuff out of my tank.....

 

[twon8]

And I guess the final question is, is it worth it? Thanks

My reef is running 40 years with no sump so to answer your question, no you don't need one.

No, you don't need one, but Yes, it is very worth it.

It increases your total water volume, making your system more stable.
Allows you to get heaters and filtration out of your main tank.
Allows you to use a filter sock on the drain.
A properly run fuge will aid in Nitrate and Phosphate export.
Also will be a place to put your blue leg hermits once they start killing off your snails, if they havent already.

 

[LPS_Blasto]

Sumps aren't necessary, but they sure make life a helluva lot easier. I wouldn't run a salt water tank without a sump, but thats just me. I wouldn't fool around with a 10g sump though. It's too small. If you have an old-school 29g tank, then it's 30" long x 12" wide x 18" high. A 20L tank is the same exact dimensions length and width... only it's 12" high. Still 30" long and 12" wide. It would fit under your current tank and you can buy them brand new at Petco for about $30.

Diamond coated holes saws are cheap
http://richontools.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_5

Bulk heads are cheap
http://flexpvc.com/cart/agora.cgi?cart_id=2527417.14877&product=BulkheadFittingsEconomy

Internal overflow boxes are cheap. You don't need one 15" deep though. 8" deep is fine. Call them. Tall them to make one 8" tall x 6" wide x 4" deep.
http://www.wetdryfilter.com/internal_overflow_boxes.htm

Drill your hole so the top is about 2" below the top of the tank rim. Drilling holes is super easy with a cordless drill and a buddy to pour water on it. You wouldn't even have to drain the tank. Drain it down about 10" and drill the hole. Slap your bulk head fitting in the hole and tighten it down. Gasket goes on the outside. Glue a ball valve on the bulk head and shut if off. Fill the tank up again. Finish your plumbing. Fill the sump about 1/2 way. Open the ball valve. Pretty stinkin' easy IMO.

Use a 1" bulk head. Buy a 46mm hole saw and have your internal overflow box custom made. Mag 3 return pump. 1" drain line and 3/4" return line. Go to town!! Piece of cake man.

 

[ReefKnot]

No, you don't need one, but Yes, it is very worth it.

It increases your total water volume, making your system more stable.

Also will be a place to put your blue leg hermits once they start killing off your snails, if they havent already.

Its only 10g, 10g would be a 33% increase, so yeah that would help....


Killing off my snails? I have to deal with that now?





OK So if I'm turning this 10g into a sump, what do I need in the way of piping and pumps to get the water out of my DT and down to this tank? Without drilling holes

 

[LPS_Blasto]

Killing off my snails? I have to deal with that now?

Yep. Crabs kill snails. Fact of life my friend. Crabs are opportunistic predators. If they can catch a snail, they'll kill it and eat it or try to use the shell as a home... or both.

I don't care what kind of crab it is. I've seen scarlets, blue legs, red legs and even emeralds attack and eat snails. I hate crabs. I don't even have any of them anymore. I keep a good assortment of different snail species in my tank. No crabs anymore.

 

[ReefKnot]

Oh Wonderful... I'll keep my eyes open

 

[robrich342]

I have a 120gallon tank , 100 gallon sump and 29 gallon refugium. I do all my work, maintenance, dosing, etc.. in the sump never needing to disturb the main tank. I also did this to create a much larger total water volume making it a much more stable system. By being more stable it allows errors you will make ...to not have as great of an impact as they would otherwise. example 1/2 a cup of chlorine spilled into 100 gallons has a great greater impact than 1/2 a cup of chlorine spilled into a 250 gallon system. If you make salt mix errors they have less impact ..etc..etc..

I wouldn't run a reef without one.

 

[Paul B]

So aside from getting my filter and heater out of my tank, and a skimmer if and when I get one, a fuge would do very little? S

I didn't say that, a fuge is a great idea if you have some place to put it. Mine is over the tank but I would imagine most people put that in a sump.
All of the things said about a sump are true. But it is not a necessity.

 

[USC-fan]

My reef is running 40 years with no sump so to answer your question, no you don't need one.

sure you dont need one, but most people do.