Fairy Wrasse and PraziPro

[ProudSoonersFan]

I have a Yellow Fin Fairy Wrasse (Cirrhilabrus flavidorsalis) in my 10 gallon QT. He's been there for about 4 weeks. After reading some forums about preventative medicine, I decided to purchase PraziPro. While I have no idea what visible signs might exist for parasites, it's my understanding that this stuff is fairly safe, even if dosed a little heavy. He has gradually become comfortable in his small home mainly hiding out in his PCV fittings. I started out feeding him live brine, then transitioned to frozen brine and mysis, and Ocean Nutrition pellets. He started coming out more when I show up which is great and I'm happy to see his personality come alive. Anyway, I dosed the PraziPro per the instructions. I used half a teaspoon yesterday. Shortly after dosing, he started acting strange by laying down in the bottom of the tank, laying sideways, appearing to be lethargic and respiring somewhat heavy. Since I had no idea what was going on, I did a large water change today, changed the filter and biowheel, and put in an airstone to get oxygen going. I have no idea what the ammonia level was but I do a large water change every weekend. So now he goes into his pipe and sometimes he lays on his side, which I've never seen before. He will swim around some if I disturb him but not with the usual urgency to hide (I found this out when I put in the airstone and secured it with a small piece of sacrificial live rock). I have tried throwing in a couple of pellets to see if he'll eat but he's disinterested. Does anyone have any idea what's going on? Is there anything else I can do to heal him up from what ever may be afflicting him?

 

[Dmorty217]

Prazipro treats flukes and internal parasites. It is very safe to use will all fish and reef tanks( except feather dusters) I would suspect that the ammonia level is raised since the QT probably doesn't have a very established bio filter. Prazipro itself will not effect the good bacteria in the tank, only copper will do this. I would check ammonia levels and leave the airstone in the tank it can't hurt. The fish not swimming or eating suddenly sounds like a ammonia issue

 

[ProudSoonersFan]

Prazipro treats flukes and internal parasites. It is very safe to use will all fish and reef tanks( except feather dusters) I would suspect that the ammonia level is raised since the QT probably doesn't have a very established bio filter. Prazipro itself will not effect the good bacteria in the tank, only copper will do this. I would check ammonia levels and leave the airstone in the tank it can't hurt. The fish not swimming or eating suddenly sounds like a ammonia issue

I guess I'll start checking it more often. I checked it last weekend prior to a WC and it was about 0.5 PPM, maybe slightly less. If this is truly an ammonia issue, will he recover if I monitor and act accordingly? I'm hoping the airstone is helping too. I also added a small amount of Instant Ocean BioSpira when I got the QT going 4 weeks ago. I guess with the new BioWheel, I need to monitor the ammonia more closely.

EDIT: I also have AmQuel but haven't used any yet. I will keep a closer eye on things to see if he comes out of this ok.

 

[tylersarah]

.5 ppm is high, and without knowing your pH and temp, it could worse. The higher the pH/temp the higher the toxic ammonia. Aeration is always helpful when dosing Prazipro, sounds like the combination of ammonia/less oxygen caused the behavior. Amquel (the regular kind, not Amquel PLUS is safe with Prazipro), I'd use it, it's only a band-aid and something has to be done to control the ammonia, maybe a whole bottle of BioSpira or some seeded media? Also, ammonia test kits are touchy, I purchased a new one that read incorrect levels and I did all these w/cs only to find it was the new salifert test kit.

Ammonia burns the gills and can cause permanent damage, fish do recover but some may never be the same. Hope that helps.

 

[devimik]

I just finished treating my DT with Prazipro and I have a very active Tricolor Wrasse. For some reason, after treating, he hid in his cave for much of the day and it took almost the whole treatment time (7 days) for him to get back to normal. My feather duster made it through the treatment too. Now, all my fish are back to normal and I've removed the Prazipro with Carbon and water changes.

 

[ProudSoonersFan]

I wish that I had taken an ammonia reading before doing a large WC. I just know that I've been very diligent at doing weekly water changes, kept feedings to a minimum, and I'm ashamed to admit that I didn't monitor it like I should have. I feel terrible about it. That said, he's still lethargic but moves around when startled, but mainly just lays there resting. He tries to bury himself in sand and I have yet to give him a bowl full. I'll wait and see if he pulls out of this.

 

[r-balljunkie]

fairy wrasses are not usually susceptible to most common diseases. why are you being so proactive in treating the fish?

i would put the fish in the main DT and stop any undue stresses. the end consequence may be a dead fish.

GL
C

 

[tylersarah]

I wish that I had taken an ammonia reading before doing a large WC. I just know that I've been very diligent at doing weekly water changes, kept feedings to a minimum, and I'm ashamed to admit that I didn't monitor it like I should have. I feel terrible about it. That said, he's still lethargic but moves around when startled, but mainly just lays there resting. He tries to bury himself in sand and I have yet to give him a bowl full. I'll wait and see if he pulls out of this.

Ammonia, in an un-cycled tank will return within 6 hrs or so, weekly water changes aren't enough. I would give him more sand and leave in QT, wrasses often carry parasites and I know where I've been in this hobby and I'm a strong proponent of qt.

 

[vitz]

unless you do a nice wc every other day and re-dose w/prazi for at least 30-45 days, it will be absolutely ineffective at removing flukes (which is all it's really good for).

prazi is most effective at immediate fluke removal if used in a fw dip. otherwise, all it does is paralyze the flukes so they drop off. it DOES NOT kill flukes, or their eggs, etc. you must regularly vacuum off the bottom of the treatment qt tank so the flukes don't reattach to the fish after they fall off.

another reason for the long treatment is to make sure you address the issue of the fluke's eggs, which will NOT be affected. (you have to treat continually as new eggs hatch, or you've done nothing, heh).

 

[ProudSoonersFan]

I appreciate all the comments so far. I wanted to provide more of a clarification of the events leading up to the strange behavior: As mentioned he's been in QT for 4 weeks. As soon as I set up the QT, I treated biowheel and filter with BioSpira in an effort to keep ammonia in check. I also pulled a fist sized piece of cured live rock from the aquarium and a few pieces of rubble that I threw in the sump over a month ago as something extra to help with ammonia. These are sacrificial rocks so they won't go back in the DT. So, leading up to when I treated with PraziPro, he was starting to get used to my presence. He started coming out when I would show up, began eating live brine, then transition to frozen and pellets. His personality was coming to life. He was swimming around freely and less afraid of my when I'd show up. When he did hide, you could always see his mouth and half an eye sticking out of a piece of PVC. Immediately after dosing some PraziPro, he started acting strange. He ate the day I dosed because I fed right before the treatment. He was actively darting around getting the brine. Now, he acts like he's tired and sleeps in all kinds of awkward positions, probably because he has no sand. I will wash some and put a bowl of it in there and see if he can burrow in it. Oh, one last thing, since I've had him, he sheds scales on occasion and I have no idea why. I suspect it's because he's trying to burrow.

Ammonia, in an un-cycled tank will return within 6 hrs or so, weekly water changes aren't enough. I would give him more sand and leave in QT, wrasses often carry parasites and I know where I've been in this hobby and I'm a strong proponent of qt.

As I mentioned, I treated the QT with BioSpira when I started, and then retreated the new biowheel and filter. I will check ammonia some time this morning. Will sand in a plastic bowl be sufficient?

unless you do a nice wc every other day and re-dose w/prazi for at least 30-45 days, it will be absolutely ineffective at removing flukes (which is all it's really good for).

prazi is most effective at immediate fluke removal if used in a fw dip. otherwise, all it does is paralyze the flukes so they drop off. it DOES NOT kill flukes, or their eggs, etc. you must regularly vacuum off the bottom of the treatment qt tank so the flukes don't reattach to the fish after they fall off.

another reason for the long treatment is to make sure you address the issue of the fluke's eggs, which will NOT be affected. (you have to treat continually as new eggs hatch, or you've done nothing, heh).

I'll do more research on flukes but it's my understanding there's no visible signs of a fluke infestation. When I do a WC, I try to vacuum the bottom but probably don't get everything. You recommend a dip. Is that to ensure that what does fall of doesn't go back into the QT? How many dip sessions would you recommend?

fairy wrasses are not usually susceptible to most common diseases. why are you being so proactive in treating the fish?

i would put the fish in the main DT and stop any undue stresses. the end consequence may be a dead fish.

GL
C

I am just trying to be proactive. My DT is disease free and everyone is doing well. I want to make sure I don't bring in hitchhikers.

 

[hogfanreefer]

Fairy wrasses don't sleep in the sand. There is no need to add sand, it will only complicate things.

Check your water parameters and do frequent water changes if ammonia is a problem.

 

[tylersarah]

I'd be surprised if you have ammonia after using the live rock/BioSpira, question your test kit.

And for flukes, some are large and visible, often seen on the side of the fish and sometimes causes cloudy eyes. I just went through a bout of microscopic flukes and while the Prazi knocked them back, Formalin is what really helped. Formalin doesn't kill the eggs either, there's a product called De Los that will, but it also sometimes kills the fish. The number one symptom of flukes is heavy breathing, but if you have heavy breathing in combination with mucus or fin rot it's probably not flukes.

I would keep the air stone in the tank and monitor closely for other symptoms so you can treat if needed as soon as possible. I like to paper at least one wall of the aquarium to help with stress.

 

[Newsmyrna80]

My experience with Prazi, wrasses and QT: Not all wrasses may sleep in sand but that is where they retreat for safety which lowers their stress. I usually put a small container with sand in the QT. Prazi, IME, did affect all the wrasses I had. They seemed to hide more and it did reduce their appetite.

 

[ProudSoonersFan]

My experience with Prazi, wrasses and QT: Not all wrasses may sleep in sand but that is where they retreat for safety which lowers their stress. I usually put a small container with sand in the QT. Prazi, IME, did affect all the wrasses I had. They seemed to hide more and it did reduce their appetite.

What you're saying is consistent with my observations. It seems too coincidental for the PraziPro to have not affected him. The suddenness of it following the dosing and no other changes makes me believe it did affect him. What I don't know is what affect did it have on him if the PraziPro was the cause of sudden behavior change. I will walk by to check on him because I'm so concerned and he'll be laying on his side but his eyes are moving around. It's as if he's in a trance and he'll come to and move around some. I just can't figure it out. I will try the sand just in case because when he wants to escape, he scurries around the bottom of the tank with his head down as if he is trying to burrow...at least that's what it looks like.

 

[vitz]

I appreciate all the comments so far. I wanted to provide more of a clarification of the events leading up to the strange behavior: As mentioned he's been in QT for 4 weeks. As soon as I set up the QT, I treated biowheel and filter with BioSpira in an effort to keep ammonia in check. I also pulled a fist sized piece of cured live rock from the aquarium and a few pieces of rubble that I threw in the sump over a month ago as something extra to help with ammonia. These are sacrificial rocks so they won't go back in the DT. So, leading up to when I treated with PraziPro, he was starting to get used to my presence. He started coming out when I would show up, began eating live brine, then transition to frozen and pellets. His personality was coming to life. He was swimming around freely and less afraid of my when I'd show up. When he did hide, you could always see his mouth and half an eye sticking out of a piece of PVC. Immediately after dosing some PraziPro, he started acting strange. He ate the day I dosed because I fed right before the treatment. He was actively darting around getting the brine. Now, he acts like he's tired and sleeps in all kinds of awkward positions, probably because he has no sand. I will wash some and put a bowl of it in there and see if he can burrow in it. Oh, one last thing, since I've had him, he sheds scales on occasion and I have no idea why. I suspect it's because he's trying to burrow.



As I mentioned, I treated the QT with BioSpira when I started, and then retreated the new biowheel and filter. I will check ammonia some time this morning. Will sand in a plastic bowl be sufficient?



I'll do more research on flukes but it's my understanding there's no visible signs of a fluke infestation. When I do a WC, I try to vacuum the bottom but probably don't get everything. You recommend a dip. Is that to ensure that what does fall of doesn't go back into the QT? How many dip sessions would you recommend?



I am just trying to be proactive. My DT is disease free and everyone is doing well. I want to make sure I don't bring in hitchhikers.

where/whatever your 1st 'research' was, it was wrong. stop using whatever source you're using. internal flukes are tricky to diagnose, but skin and eye flukes are easily visible from a distance-they really 'stick out' w/ help of a flashlight beamed directly down on the fish from above, while looking at the fish in profile (head on)-you can easily see the little 'bumps' on the fish's body that are the flukes. eye flukes are quite easily seen in/on the eye



ime-usually one major dip is enough to knock most if not all skin flukes, and fish usually won't get 're-attacked'.

dips depend on each individual fish-no two take a dip the same way. flukes take about 5-15 minutes to swell up and drop off from the sudden forced intake of fw into their bodies (fw dips basically force flukes to 'ingest' more fw than they can physically hold, pushing them off the fish and killing them). i always dip for as long as i think the fish can stand w/out dying. after a few thousand, you get very good at knowing when that is . i've dipped fish anywhere from 5-45 minutes per dip-depending on level of infestation and the behavior of the fish during the dip. you should be able to find a post or three on rc where i've detailed the process/technique i've learned and use. it's extremely effective, and probably puts the least amount of overall stress on the fish.

and NO dt is EVER 'disease free'. at best, it can only be 'outbreak free'

hth

 

[ProudSoonersFan]

where/whatever your 1st 'research' was, it was wrong. stop using whatever source you're using. internal flukes are tricky to diagnose, but skin and eye flukes are easily visible from a distance-they really 'stick out' w/ help of a flashlight beamed directly down on the fish from above, while looking at the fish in profile (head on)-you can easily see the little 'bumps' on the fish's body that are the flukes. eye flukes are quite easily seen in/on the eye



ime-usually one major dip is enough to knock most if not all skin flukes, and fish usually won't get 're-attacked'.

dips depend on each individual fish-no two take a dip the same way. flukes take about 5-15 minutes to swell up and drop off from the sudden forced intake of fw into their bodies (fw dips basically force flukes to 'ingest' more fw than they can physically hold, pushing them off the fish and killing them). i always dip for as long as i think the fish can stand w/out dying. after a few thousand, you get very good at knowing when that is . i've dipped fish anywhere from 5-45 minutes per dip-depending on level of infestation and the behavior of the fish during the dip. you should be able to find a post or three on rc where i've detailed the process/technique i've learned and use. it's extremely effective, and probably puts the least amount of overall stress on the fish.

and NO dt is EVER 'disease free'. at best, it can only be 'outbreak free'

hth

Not only was I trying to get rid of any flukes but also treat for internal worms that might be present as well. Since my understanding is this stuff was safe, I figured it wouldn't be any harm.

He appears to be slowly coming around. He came out to eat a couple of pieces of frozen brine and swam around a little. The ammonia, trites, and trates are all 0. I just don't understand what this stuff could have done to him.

 

[vitz]

for internal worms i'd look into levamisol. prazi, like formalin, iirc,sucks O2 out of the water. it's not surprising to me that a fish reacted to it negatively, especially a wrasse. fw fish that are known for their mucus production (like discus)have issues w/ certain meds/water conditioners. i wouldn't be surprised if his gills got 'zapped' a tad

 

[vitz]

and fwiw, prazi should ALWAYS be used w/ good aeration present prior to its introduction to the water

 

[AdrianOcampo]

Dont listen to what some people say about being too safe..
after getting ich..
I will quarantine any fish i get from now on no matter what.. i'd rather lose the fish in my qt than in my display tank.

 

[ProudSoonersFan]

for internal worms i'd look into levamisol. prazi, like formalin, iirc,sucks O2 out of the water. it's not surprising to me that a fish reacted to it negatively, especially a wrasse. fw fish that are known for their mucus production (like discus)have issues w/ certain meds/water conditioners. i wouldn't be surprised if his gills got 'zapped' a tad

If what you said is true, do you think it caused irreparable damage? When you say "especially a wrasse", what do you mean by that? While he's slowly coming around, he still lays in all kinds of wierd positions that I never saw previously. Other than that, I have seen no signs of flukes. I'm just trying to be proactive after many posts from several forums saying how safe PraziPro is.