Filter socks or not

[snake1]

Who here runs a reef tank without filter socks. I want to run an all sps system, my current future build is a 60 cube with a 45 gallon sump I was thinking of running a larger skimmer and keep it barebottom with lots of pumps in the main display and sump to keep the detritus suspended for the skimmer to remove, I have two mp40s and two mp10s. I'm trying to avoid the annoying daily filter change and skimmer overflow everytime you change the sock. We also just picked up a new washer and the fiance is not ok with washing the socks in there.
I'm still not set on barebottom I think sand looks better and you can get some cool fish to sift through it but I know it also becomes dirty and houses detritus and toxins. Please let me know your opinions.

 

[bwhit1406]

On my new tank I really wanted to ditch filter socks. I ended up coming to a compromise, run socks when I need to like during cleaning of sand bed. I have the sump setup to use filter material that I will toss and replace weekly to filter out larger particles. I also will be running an oversized skimmer. Tank will by Sps heavy.

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[Reeferman1019]

you can try mesh filter socks 100 or 200 micron easier to clean


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[Specfishin]

I run socks and run a decent amount of flow and feed heavier. That being said my felt filters last at least 5 days to a week. On the other hand , mesh filters will clog in a day or two. Just my experience.

I can't see a sand bottom with high flow for a sps tank only and not have a mess or uneven sand piles.

 

[cardiffgiant]

I've got sock holders in my redsea. Instead of using socks picked up a cup that holds filter floss and fits in the sock holder. I just throw out the floss every two days. 3-4 months worth of the floss costs $10 on ebay. I still put my socks in every couple of months when i do a sump cleaning and stir up the sand bed.

I know what you mean about skimmers overflowing with sock changes. I use an apex feed program to turn off my skimmer for 30 mins after I swap them.

 

[Ted_C]

A couple of things here - speaking from experience and having the same ideas as you in previous builds:
If it doesn't "float" in your tank - the skimmer can't be used to remove it. Skimmers do not remove detritus. Skimmers aren't designed to remove anything but dissolved organics.

It doesn't really matter how much flow you have in your tank - your always going to have a spot that's going to collect detritus that's going to need to be siphoned out.

I have two tanks:
150 gallon 5 foot w/ frag racks and two MP40's and one MP10 (Back wall). I still get detritus.
300 gallon: 8 foot long w two MP 60's and two MP 40's (back wall). The arrangement of the rock work was done carefully to allow the MP60's full unimpeded flow from wall to wall. I still get detritus.

So it doesn't really matter how much you can keep the particles suspended - it'll still going to need to be exported somewhere.

Skimmer overflow after filter sock change:
This is bad: you still have detergents in your socks after cleaning. This can be due to several things some of which are not obvious.
All filter socks, even brand new filter socks ran through the washing machine need run again with no detergent (a full rinse).
Your choice of normal detergent for regular laundry plays a role too. I use Tide dry detergent for normal laundry. I've found the tide pods leave some sort of detergent in the washer for a cycle or two. Liquid detergents are even worse.
Lastly, where you put your detergent in the washer: if you use the little cup or the receptacle (instead of putting it directly on your laundry or in the bin) - it takes forever for that little cup to clean itself out. So even if you rinse your filter socks with a water cycle only - you still get detergents into the socks.
I soak my soaks in 1 cup of bleach in a 5 gallon bucket. After I collect twelve socks (thats as many as I can fit in a 5 gallon bucket) - i run them through the washer with 1 cup of bleach. I then run another cycle with dry oxyclean. I then run another cycle with nothing (water rinse cycle). I dont have any problems with detergent left on the socks.

I change my socks in both tanks every two days (was running three days but I started to get Cyano - two days seems to be keeping this in check along with weekly water changes instead of water changes every two weeks). That's 12 socks a week since both tanks hold two socks. I siphon detritus once a month while the tank is running directly into the filter socks. When I do that I make sure to rinse the socks with a garden hose before I put them into the bleach soak bucket.

If it were me and I haven't dissuaded you from your idea: Build out the system to allow the possibility to use filter socks in the future. Run it without filter socks and see what happens. If it doesn't work - you can switch over to using socks.

 

[snake1]

A couple of things here - speaking from experience and having the same ideas as you in previous builds:
If it doesn't "float" in your tank - the skimmer can't be used to remove it. Skimmers do not remove detritus. Skimmers aren't designed to remove anything but dissolved organics.

It doesn't really matter how much flow you have in your tank - your always going to have a spot that's going to collect detritus that's going to need to be siphoned out.

I have two tanks:
150 gallon 5 foot w/ frag racks and two MP40's and one MP10 (Back wall). I still get detritus.
300 gallon: 8 foot long w two MP 60's and two MP 40's (back wall). The arrangement of the rock work was done carefully to allow the MP60's full unimpeded flow from wall to wall. I still get detritus.

So it doesn't really matter how much you can keep the particles suspended - it'll still going to need to be exported somewhere.

Skimmer overflow after filter sock change:
This is bad: you still have detergents in your socks after cleaning. This can be due to several things some of which are not obvious.
All filter socks, even brand new filter socks ran through the washing machine need run again with no detergent (a full rinse).
Your choice of normal detergent for regular laundry plays a role too. I use Tide dry detergent for normal laundry. I've found the tide pods leave some sort of detergent in the washer for a cycle or two. Liquid detergents are even worse.
Lastly, where you put your detergent in the washer: if you use the little cup or the receptacle (instead of putting it directly on your laundry or in the bin) - it takes forever for that little cup to clean itself out. So even if you rinse your filter socks with a water cycle only - you still get detergents into the socks.
I soak my soaks in 1 cup of bleach in a 5 gallon bucket. After I collect twelve socks (thats as many as I can fit in a 5 gallon bucket) - i run them through the washer with 1 cup of bleach. I then run another cycle with dry oxyclean. I then run another cycle with nothing (water rinse cycle). I dont have any problems with detergent left on the socks.

I change my socks in both tanks every two days (was running three days but I started to get Cyano - two days seems to be keeping this in check along with weekly water changes instead of water changes every two weeks). That's 12 socks a week since both tanks hold two socks. I siphon detritus once a month while the tank is running directly into the filter socks. When I do that I make sure to rinse the socks with a garden hose before I put them into the bleach soak bucket.

If it were me and I haven't dissuaded you from your idea: Build out the system to allow the possibility to use filter socks in the future. Run it without filter socks and see what happens. If it doesn't work - you can switch over to using socks.

Yeah the skimmer overflow has always been an issue I would let it fill up then dump that cup and that seemed to be it then it was back to normal operation. I have always only washed them with bleach and after that cycle I would run a straight rinse run no bleach and let The air dry after and it would still cause The skimmer to go haywire.The new washing machine might be worse it's a new high tech low water usage washer so I'm not sure how great it would be at rinsing. I was just trying to think of a way to avoid the use of the socks and I have read that the sand can be an issue with detritus and toxins. I'm even thinking of having a very small Bio load maybe a few small wrasses at best so water pollution should be minimal.

 

[bangai64]

I don't use socks. My tank has been up for over 6 years. About every two months or so. I shut down my system and clean out he detritus that accumulates in the first chamber of my sump. That's it. If it gets too cloudy during clean out I'll use socks to clean the water. I have a predominantly sps Tank. 265 gall. I think that some of the fine particles floating in the tank is a food source for the coral and other small critters in the tank.

 

[stpauli914]

I'm part of the "No Filter sock crew". My SPS tank(80 gallon rimless) has been filter sock free since day one. I also run barebottom with tons of random flow to keep most detritus in suspension. Ted is right, there will always be a spot or 2 that collects excess detritus regardless, but this is easily siphoned during water changes, or I use a turkey baster at times to suck it out. I have a quality BK skimmer and a simple 2 chamber sump. The detritus gets siphoned out of the sump chamber on water changes and about once every 8-10 months or so I will pull the entire sump for cleaning. My new 240 has had filter socks running for the first 2 months at 3-4 days at a time and I am getting ready to pull them and only run them a couple days per month or maybe not at all.

Any other questions, hit me up and you can come take a look if you like.

Aaron

 

[stpauli914]

Let me also mention that my 80gal is ULNS and never a sign of nitrates and PO4 stays at .03 or less. I think without proper filter sock maintenance they can cause excess nitrates and Phosphates. In an ideal world they would need to be changed and properly cleaned every 2 days but most people tend to let them go longer and not clean them properly. This can cause havoc on chemistry. Me personally...I'd rather suction some detritus every couple weeks than play with socks every couple days. To each their own though

Aaron

 

[snake1]

Let me also mention that my 80gal is ULNS and never a sign of nitrates and PO4 stays at .03 or less. I think without proper filter sock maintenance they can cause excess nitrates and Phosphates. In an ideal world they would need to be changed and properly cleaned every 2 days but most people tend to let them go longer and not clean them properly. This can cause havoc on chemistry. Me personally...I'd rather suction some detritus every couple weeks than play with socks every couple days. To each their own though

Aaron

What's ULNS

 

[cardiffgiant]

ultra low nutrient system

 

[snake1]

ultra low nutrient system

Thanks

 

[BobbyV]

No socks

 

[bks2100]

I think without proper filter sock maintenance they can cause excess nitrates and Phosphates.

How does it cause excess nitrates and phosphates? I could see not changing socks as doing that compared to changing them frequently, but in terms of socks vs no socks I thought it would only affect suspended particles but not nitrates/phosphates.

 

[Reeferman1019]

How does it cause excess nitrates and phosphates? I could see not changing socks as doing that compared to changing them frequently, but in terms of socks vs no socks I thought it would only affect suspended particles but not nitrates/phosphates.

if you don't change the felt filter socks in time the garbage that collects in them will start to decompose and leech back into your system causing nitrates and phosphates to increase. Currently I'm experimenting with mesh socks so far I like it


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[chgoblknazn]

I used socks when I first got into the hobby but stopped using them a few months later. I got really tired of changing them and the maintenance involved got really old. I haven't used them since and my water is typically clear. My tank is barebottom and the detritus typically only collect n 2 spots in my tank. I siphon that stuff out during the weekly water change.

 

[Sthomasson72]

I travel so much that my socks stay in too long. Which may be why I have problems with hair algae


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[Ted_C]

Oh Oh Oh Oh. I forgot!

As I was grocery shopping today, I realized I left something off the list for what causes "detergent" to stay on the socks - even after a rinse.

Do Not use Spashless Bleach! A thickener or something is added to all splashless bleach products that sticks to socks - even after a rinse cycle. Use Publix Normal bleach or Chlorox Normal Bleach.

 

[laserjim]

I get to many micro bubbles without them.