Fire proofing

Belallanon

New member
I've seen pictures of hoods badly scorched by reflectors. Besides using spacers, one thing I've done is to place a layer of fire resistant Nomex cloth between my relfector and hood. I've even wrapped any wiring close to the reflector to help prevent problems. Just a tip I thought I'd pass along.
 
As a firefighter, I am very familiar with Nomex (our turnout gear is made from it)...let me offer you some pieces of advice...

First, sun bleaches Nomex...so, light from your tank will do the same...water does to a point reflect back upwards from the waters surface...bleached Nomex becomes brittle...

Second, heat degrades Nomex...that is why after a set of gear has been in so many fires it must be replaced...

The Nomex will end up shedding fibers in to your tank...Nomex is fire resistant because it is treated with chemicals...nobody knows what salt water is going to do to Nomex either, so it may very well degrade it even quicker than the things listed above...

So...long story short...take out the Nomex...put some spacers in between your reflectors and your hood...and make sure there is plenty of air flow through the hood to assure that the wood doesn't scorch...
 
I second Hopefull, spacers and flow are all that should be needed. take a close look at some commercial fixtures for ideas on how much space is needed. Air after all is the all time best insulator around. Perfect example, our nomex gear will protect us for the most part in a fire EXCEPT for the parts that are tight to our body. The first places that burn are the tight spots where airpack straps and the such press our gear to our bodies. These burns are caused by the fact that nomex while being great at standing up to heat, still has less insulating effect than air space does. All in all its a good idea and probbaly better than nothing, but airspace is the winner, even just a little to prevent direct heat transfer from metal to wood.
 
I will third that...

Nomex = great stuff if you fight fires or drive machines powered by nitromethane or alcohol...

Air = great stuff to isolate hot reflectors from wood.

Nice idea, but all in all not a good one :)

Me I prefer my asbestos blanket for dealing with very hot stuff (like soldering or burning in tight spaces). :D
 
I took some fiberglass insulation mat, wrapped it in foil to keep the splinters contained, then sandwiched it between the hood and a 5"x7" peice of 1/8" stainless steel plate bolted to the hood above the MH bulb.

The hood over the bulb was not noticably warmer over the bulbs than anywhere on the rest of the hood.

The plate acts as a heat sink and the fiberglass mat kept the heat in the plate and off the wood. The fans moved the heat out of the hood.

I had some cooked (charred) wood before I added the plate and insulation
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8892871#post8892871 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Hopeful Reefer
Bean - Asbestos is definitely good for those things...if you don't mind a little skin cancer now and again!! :lmao: :D

IT will not give you skin cancer :) It can give you lung cancer if you inhale enough of the fibers. To do that, they must be in a friable state...

anyway, don't worry bean does not have lung cancer :)
 
Like flfirefighter13 said...the best thing is air space between the hood and the reflector/lights...if you must, put a bunch of washers in between there and you will have it made...air space with air movement is the key...you probably scorched the wood due to direct contact...
 
Apples, oranges...6 of one, half dozen of the other... :lmao: Skin, lung, whatever...is one cancer better than the other?? :D
 
hesaias, love the avatar! not a bad idea wrapping the fiberglass, just be sure to check it out every once in a while, most thin metal foil will degrade over time. Also some fiberglass matt degrades as well. Depending on whats its designed use was for. most commercial fiberglass insulation is designed to keep cool in, such as ac duct, as well as to provide a sealed air space. This fiberglass insulation will often fail under high heat conditions. The glass itself is fine but the binders used to hold it may not be. Also note that most fiberglass insualtion uses a binding glue that is flammable. Im not sure what its ignition temp is but just be aware, it is most likely safer than useing just wood as long as there is not a malfunctio that causes a spark.
I worked as a insulator for a while before my current trade and we used to use foam glass, kind of looked like pumice stone but was made of glass. Messy to work with and I only really saw it used on cold applications but it may be usable in this case. For most heat applications such as mufflers we used a calcium based material, like a soft brick if that makes sense. I really cant remeber what it was called but it was kind of chalky and had to be sealed with a cloth and mastic mixture over the top but a 1" thick piece placed directly on a diesal generators exhaust would keep it cool enough to touch.
 
As far as asbestos goes its really only a problem when airborne, people would be shock to see how many items asbestos is in that they pass ona daily basis, as long as its selaed its all good. There are even trends to just seal it in when used as pipe covering and stuff in older buildings. Its apparently cheaper and safer to spray a heavy seal on it and leave in place than to tear it out.
 
FF13
This stuff is woven, like cloth. Its industrial grade.

Did that foam glass stink when you cut it? We called it "fart rock" when I was a kid. I know what you are talkin about. The white stuff is good too, but too crumbly. They use the fabric to wrap pipes and such.

Thanks for the props on the avatar. C&H rules the world.
 
As long as the cloth was designed for eha applictaions you will be fine, Ive seen several people use standard attic fiberglass, or other pipecovering for all the wrong reasons. Fart rock is saying it lightly!!! The smell you could get used to but the dust it makes follows you home and gives everything a nice glimmery look..... Im sure it was great for the lungs of all the kids in the neighborhood. I remember years ago my stepdad would bring home empty boxes that had held foam glass and even asbestos, probally wasnt the best thing to make forts out of as a kid huh?

C&H and the far side are my all time favorite comics, sad to see them both end:(
 
I'm not so sure...

Nomex is a a made aramid fiber that is inherently flame resistant, it has no treatments that will degrade, wash out or otherwise be affected by exposure to the elements. Nomex will fade with exposure to UV, however Dupont says this fading does not affect it's effectiveness. There is no set number of times Nomex may be exposed to heat before needing to be replaced, expose my station wear or turnouts to high enough heat once and they can be trashed. More likely an individual may only need 3 sets of turnouts in a 25 year career. Some guys physically wear the gear out with no apparent damage from the heat from the fires they've been in. Generally Nomex fabric is extremely durable and wears like iron. While the Nomex uniform I wear to work costs several times as much as the FR treated cotton alternative, it lasts several years and the fire resistance is permenant as opposed to several months with the treatment washing out.

Nomex is manufactured in many different forms for many uses such as circuit boards, electrical wire insulation, air filters, carpet, upholstry, insulating blankets, paper, etc... I doubt fiber shedding is an issue...

Keep in mind Nomex is not fireproof, it will burn with direct flame impingment, it will not however support combustion. From what I've been able to find it can sustain temps of about 400F without problems. This "should" be adequate for your application.

If it were me, I would lean toward the ceramic insulation I use when working on chimneys. It is designed to wrap around a stainless steel liner and withstand solid fuel chimney temperatures. 1/2" of this insulation and you can lay your hand on the outside of an 700F chimney without harm.

HTH
Tim:cool:
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8893412#post8893412 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by flfirefighter13
As far as asbestos goes its really only a problem when airborne, people would be shock to see how many items asbestos is in that they pass ona daily basis, as long as its selaed its all good. There are even trends to just seal it in when used as pipe covering and stuff in older buildings. Its apparently cheaper and safer to spray a heavy seal on it and leave in place than to tear it out.

Yup.... I used to carry (and maintain) a HAZWOPER cert (and others), but let it/them slide because they are somewhat useless these days. Certified to enter a hazardous waste site and remove asbestos (among other things) I was...

Asbestos was one of the first great class action scams dreamed up by the legal profession.

Did I mention, in addition to my blanket, I keep asbestos tiles in my plumbing box? :D
 
wrap around a liner? My wood stove has the ceramic insulation right in the top of the fire box in direct contact with the flame and intense heat :) Great stuff!
 
Back
Top