First Case Of Pinched Mantle??

[bluetmax]

I'm going to be the first to say that other than it being caused by a protozoan, I know next to nothing about pinched mantle disease. I have four crocea clams in the tank along with the clam that I am having the issue with. I am uncertain as to whether or not this is pinched mantle, and one of these pictures is kind of shoddy. The coral next to it is sliming, because it had just been moved. Please help me figure out what is going on. I really don't want to lose this clam, or any of my others. It has been in my tank for around two weeks now, and it definitely is looking worse than when it first arrived.

 

[bluetmax]

No evidence of snails or problems with the other clams either, BTW.

 

[mrme]

Im not very Familiar with pinched mantle.
But i suggest a 5-10 minute, fresh water dip. Ro/Di water, then ph adjusted will be the best method.
Keep a close eye on the clam over the next few days, and see what others have to say Before doing this. Maybe he will perk back up tomorrow ?

Goodluck !

=D

 

[mbbuna]

can you list results from every test kit you have. also list filtration media you use or have used recently. list all additives you use or have used

 

[bluetmax]

mbbuna, I was hoping you would see this post. lol
Ca: 430
Alk: 3.8
SG: 1.025
pH: 8.2
Temp: 79.0 - 81.0
Dosing is 2 part B-Ionic added slowly before lights out, I run carbon changed monthly, use chaetomorpha and mangroves, run CPR bakpak, and alternate between 10 and 20 gallon water changes monthly. Tank is 64 gallon cube lit by a 400 watt 15K halide.

 

[bluetmax]

I also add Reef Complete on Sundays and Wednesdays (3 capfuls as opposed to recommended 4), alternate feedings with oyster eggs, DT's Phyto, zoomax, and Chrromamax.

 

[bluetmax]

One other thing....All of my corals (primarily SPS, but it is a mixed reef) have excellent PE and are growing exceptionally well, and no other clams (all croceas) are showing any signs of distress, including the one that came in with this one. The clams were quarantined and came from a very reputable company... I'm just at a loss as to what may be the problem.

 

[mbbuna]

so no trace elements, or iron based PO4 removers?

for now replace your carbon with 2x, 3x, or even 4x what you are using now preferably in a reactor or canister filter, anything that forces water through the carbon and not just running past or over it. dont worry about running too much carbon because you really cant. the only possible down side of adding a lot of carbon at once is a rapid clearing of the water and possible bleaching of some corals from increased light penetration, so if you see any of that raise your lights or add a few layers of screening over the tank.

if you dont see any improvement in the clam in 24 hours then give it an RO freshwater dip for 20min. while in the dip use a turkey baster to gently blow water all along where the mantle and shell meet and around the byssal opening. try and do this for the full 20min if you can but dont blow hard. what you are doing is making sure the freshwater gets into all the folds and nooks

 

[bluetmax]

Is this something that can spread to the other croceas? Twenty minutes seems like a long time, but I know from your prior posts that you seem to be the clam guru. lol You are talking about completely submerging the clam? The end of the clam with the foot is not completely joining like the others do... It has a gap of maybe 1-2 mm. The carbon I currently run is in a HOB filter....

 

[mbbuna]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10879085#post10879085 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bluetmax
Is this something that can spread to the other croceas?

yes

Twenty minutes seems like a long time

ive done it up to 30min many times and others have done it up to one hour but i wouldn't recommend more then 30min.

You are talking about completely submerging the clam?

yes

The end of the clam with the foot is not completely joining like the others do... It has a gap of maybe 1-2 mm.

normal, its called the byssal opening

The carbon I currently run is in a HOB filter....

what kind? how much water flows through it?

can you get a canister filter? or even go to HD and get some 3" or 4" pvc about 2' long with 2 end caps, drill both ends for threaded barb fittings, put a sponge on the out flow side, fill it with carbon and hook it up to a pump/power head

 

[bluetmax]

I have a canister filter at home that can be used. I use Aquarium Pharmaceuticals carbon, and to be honest with you I am uncertain as to how many GPH the HOB filter is. I am not at home at the moment and would have to look. The "gap" I am referring to is actually at the very end of the shell, not the byssal opening...Almost as though the shell is separating. Here's a crappy drawing:

 

[bluetmax]

That drawing didn't load large enough....The lettering at the top is pointing to where my clam is gaping, the red arrow is the byssal opening in relation to it.

 

[mbbuna]

that is a crappy drawing

clams shells only hinge on one side. think of it like a door. you have a hinge on the right side of the door, you open the door and the left side opens but there is also a gap at the top and bottom. put another set of hinges on the top or the bottom and then try to open the door

 

[bluetmax]

I talked to the man with the plan (Barry) at Clam's Direct, sent him pictures, and he said he suspected pinched mantle also. I did a twenty minute dip, and two hours after being put back into the tank, the clam looked as though it never had any problem! I wasn't expecting any positive results this quickly at all. If it was indeed the amoeba that causes pinched mantle, is recovery generally this quick after a FW dip, or is it possible that it was something else that the dip eradicated? There was a small brittle star in the bottom of the container. Is it possible it had been inside the clam and agitating it for the past few days, or did I just not notice it going into the dip?

 

[mbbuna]

keep a close eye on it for the next few weeks. PM will sometimes return after 2 weeks or so if you dont remove what ever is triggering it (thats why you run the carbon)

the starfish is unrelated

 

[seapug]

Is this really a disease or just a sign of byssus injury? I've had this happen to my clams after a bumpy ride home when they were knocked loose from their attachement. The mantle appeared pinched for a couple weeks on the end that has the byssal opening (just like these pics), but seemed to recover after a while.

 

[mbbuna]

i dont know if you could really call it a disease or not but there is an organism that causes it

http://www.google.com/search?source...ls=RNWE,RNWE:2004-51,RNWE:en&q=pinched+mantle

 

[bluetmax]

My other new crocea started showing symptoms of this. I did the dip, and it looks fine for now. The one that originally had the problem looks as though nothing was ever wrong. What is the general path to follow in treating this? Just keep dipping whenever symptoms occur? I have two that are also in the tank that are 3 years old, and they don't seem to be affected as of now. If anything changes, I'll update the thread, but I would like to be sure I follow the correct path in eradicating this.

 

[mbbuna]

have you started running carbon yet?

 

[bluetmax]

Yes. I am running 2x's what I normally do. You said in an earlier post to run this in order to remove whatever is triggering it. I don't understand how its being triggered by something externally if its caused by an amoeba of some sorts. Am I missing something? I'll say again that I know next to nothing regarding this disease. I was browsing through Knopp's book today, and I didn't see squat about it.