First colors fade, now bleaching from the base

[platax88]

Temp is a steady 78-79 using a Ranco 2 stage controller.

I got in touch with Eric Borneman to see what his thoughts are. He says not enough PAR from the 175w Iwasaki 15k bulbs...[/IMG]

I was always under the impression that not enough PAR browns out coral. Usually too much light will bleach or "lighten". I could be wrong.

I have also started to see my sps lighten in the past few weeks on my 180 BB. I have always hovered around 2-5 ppm on N03 but a few weeks ago I reached undetectable levels... coincidence?

 

[cccapt]

Are those bite marks on the thick branch coming out the base?

No, there are no bite marks anywhere. No eggs either. I pulled 1 of the corals out and checked it with a magnifying glass. Also did a quick Lugol's dip and nothing.

I was always under the impression that not enough PAR browns out coral. Usually too much light will bleach or "lighten". I could be wrong.

This is what Eric said: "You will lose color basically because of three things where conditions no longer favor the production of fluorescing proteins (not enough energy to produce them or no need to produce them) - and this would likely be either lack of nitrogen (food) to produce the proteins or, for those species where production is related to light levels (high or low) because the light environment doesn't favor them. In your case, this could only be irradiance levels that are too low. Finally, you could have zooxanthellae pigment or number increases where brown begins to mask the fluorescing proteins and this often happens when dissolved nutrients are high. Yes, there could be other stressors, bleaching, and other factors that shut down gene activation but these are pretty remote compared to the likelihood and commonness of the other factors. With the species you showed and the information presented and the lack of other issues relatively low irradiance is the most likely cause. If you had irrandiance levels that clearly ruled out that possibility, then I would l look at the next most likely possibilities."

 

[maestro]

I had this problem occur 2 months ago, I didnt have any fish into my reef, just sps, I noticed it on the monti's and valida, the milles and birdnest seemed not too bad.

Temporarilly I would cut down the lighting period, the corals arent showing their natural pigments which means they are more likely to be damaged by the lights and bleach

I would then look into the following

Pottasium - helps cellular function, if its really low then cause be a contributing factor, the Fauna marin test is the best

Iodine - that is more likely to effect the tips of the corals but worth a test.

Nutrients, have you tested your nitrate level? its its bang on zero then possible a nutrient deficiency.

Supplements that have helped me are KZ sponge power, amino acids and Coral vitalizer, they really have bought the colour back into the tips of the acros, I dose 1 drop of each per 100l per day.

 

[cccapt]

My montis are still growing like weeds. No color loss or bleaching on any of them.

I've been doing 20g water changes every 3-4 days so if the tank is low on any trace elements, the water changes should bring them back up.

Nitrate and phosphate are both undectable with Salifert kits and always have been.

I already dropped the time the halides are on from 10 hrs to 7 hrs. I have new 250w XM 10k bulbs coming in so I will have to drop the time even more so I don't light shock the corals when I take out the 175w Iwasaki's.

 

[DeathWish302]

Larry,

I have found that elevating the lights higher instead of shortening the photo period seems to cause less shock.

JME...

 

[cccapt]

Frank, there is no way I can raise my lights. They are built into my canopy.

 

[maestro]

Regarding trace elements, it depends on what salt you are using as to whether or not you will be topping up trace elements.

From what ive read In my opinion I believe this is probably a nitrogen defiency combined what possibly low pottasium and trace elements.

I think you should maybe look into testing for these and then you can rule them out.

The only other possibility I can think of is faulty lamps and or ballasts, ive seen this happen to tanks run when they ran metal halide lamps on non metal halide ballasts, the excess UV light bleached everything.

 

[cccapt]

As far a salt, I use Red Sea Coral Pro or regular Red Sea. I don't want to start trying a bunch of things at once and I really don't want to get into dosing trace elements. I know you guys on the other side of the pond are into alot of different supplements but I want to keep it simple.

I'm going to see what happens with the 250w XM 10K's and keep doing 20g water changes every few days. I'm just baffled. How can everything grow so nice for 2 years and then all of a sudden bleaching starts on a select few corals....but only the base while the branches are still growing new tips. No doubt something happened, but I have no clue.

 

[myzislow]

Perhaps your colonies have reached the point in which they are so large that lack of light/flow at the base is leading to the STN. Though, it does seem odd that you are only noticing the recession in a few corals. My buddy's large tri-color does the same thing, the base slowly recedes while the upper branches that are exposed to adequate light and flow continue to grow and flourish.

 

[BradR]

My standard lame response: try a polyfilter? :rolleye1:
I dunno, maybe it's a system wide bacterial thing going on.
Re lighting: I have bleaching/zeo fading of corals high up in my tank under 20K's but same species of corals look totally normal on the other side low down under 10K's fwiw.

 

[platax88]

I use 3 layers of nilon netting and remove one at a time every week. Shorter photoperiod will not work IMHO and you will risk burning your corals. I would assume even more so sincee you are experiencing the paleness.

 

[cccapt]

That's a good idea, especially with the pale coloring. I'll get some eggcrate with a few layers of screen and use that.

 

[platax88]

That's a good idea, especially with the pale coloring. I'll get some eggcrate with a few layers of screen and use that.

:thumbsup:

 

[DeathWish302]

I understand about the lack of adjustment with your hood design. I forget not everyone likes the 'aquaculture facility' look with halides hanging from the ceiling.

Beautiful DIY Lumenarcs though! :thumbsup:

Agreed about the KISS approach. I suggest against trace element additions, as too much can be just as hamrful and we have no way to adequately test for these elements. After reviewing Borneman's Coral book, I would say a nitrogen limited system is not possible. Even with undetectable NO3, this level is multiple times higher than waters surrounding reefs. From reading a section in Eric's book several times, I feel both our situations are light related.

Only time will tell I guess....

 

[Canadian]

I understand about the lack of adjustment with your hood design. I forget not everyone likes the 'aquaculture facility' look with halides hanging from the ceiling.

Beautiful DIY Lumenarcs though! :thumbsup:

Agreed about the KISS approach. I suggest against trace element additions, as too much can be just as hamrful and we have no way to adequately test for these elements. After reviewing Borneman's Coral book, I would say a nitrogen limited system is not possible. Even with undetectable NO3, this level is multiple times higher than waters surrounding reefs. From reading a section in Eric's book several times, I feel both our situations are light related.

Only time will tell I guess....

The only problem with that is that captive propagated corals over several generations could very well become accustomed to elevated nitrogen levels and in their absence demonstrate growth and color changes. Just as most people experience drastic color changes in maricultured corals upon placing them in their aquaria, I don't see it being unreasonable that a coral fragment with many generations of being exposed to higher nutrient levels in aquaria would also experience some changes if exposed to relatively lower nutrient levels. But that's just my intuition and not based on any science.

I will follow along keenly as I've suspected my coloration issues also stemmed from low light. Although, within the last week of adding several fish and increasing feeding I am seeing intensification of colors in most of my corals.

 

[DeathWish302]

The only problem with that is that captive propagated corals over several generations could very well become accustomed to elevated nitrogen levels and in their absence demonstrate growth and color changes. Just as most people experience drastic color changes in maricultured corals upon placing them in their aquaria, I don't see it being unreasonable that a coral fragment with many generations of being exposed to higher nutrient levels in aquaria would also experience some changes if exposed to relatively lower nutrient levels. But that's just my intuition and not based on any science.

I will follow along keenly as I've suspected my coloration issues also stemmed from low light. Although, within the last week of adding several fish and increasing feeding I am seeing intensification of colors in most of my corals.

The reason I do not feel my fading is from sparse feeding and/or low nitrates is I have in the past couple months experimented with increasing both. I increased food over about a month to 4X what previously I was feeding to the fish and corals. That equated to roughly the volume of food as 4 cubes from a freezer pack PER DAY for a 58gal. No change.......:hmm4:

I then added KNO3 after the food caused no change. I was adding enough nitrate to maintain the NO3 at 1ppm, with no visible change in color. I did have minor improved growth, but no color shift. The problem with pumping that much nitrate was this fueled HA, which I'm finally getting a handle on a month after I ceased dosing.

I'm not saying that these corals could not 'evolve', but it seems very odd that in only a couple generations over a decade they could change so quickly wrt their environment. I agree a wild coral does act differently than an aquacultured specimen, but I feel that evolutionary trend to higher nitrates is too quick. I think their 'adaption bands' are wider than we give credit. When taking corals from various reef sectors and throwing them in the same tank, I believe these types of adaptions are happening. I don't think they are evolving, but making the best of their situation.

Obviously this is only my opinion and has not been scientifically proven... I may be completely full of it.

Any other's experience this oddity?

 

[RickMartin]

How old are the bulbs? Don't they tend to shift toward the red as they get old?

 

[cccapt]

The bulbs are 9 months old and are still plenty good. Even tho this article doesn't pertain to my exact bulbs, it gives a good general idea.

Feature Article: Metal Halide Lamps - Aging Over Time
"The study presented some very interesting data on the life of metal halide lamps. It reinforced the view that the spectral qualities change over time resulting in the change of the CCT of the lamps to lower values due to reduction in output of the blue portions of the spectrum."
"Another point to note was that the drop in output over almost 17 months of use was around 21%, lower than I would have expected."

 

[LifeAquatic]

If you have cal, mag, alk in check maybe your tank is a little nutrient poor. Try a few things to find your "balance". If you want to see your tank when you get home dont cut the lighting schedule. Another route is to feed more heavily and turn your skimmer off for a few hrs a day. Also, try feeding your SPS. Maybe some phyto feast, Oyster feast, and rotti feast would help get those colors back. Another thing to consider. How often do you change your bulbs? Maybe its time. I actually employ all the above tactics in moderation if I notice colors looking pastel.

 

[LifeAquatic]

I might be wasting money here, but I replace bulbs every 6 months. Corals seem to be happy with it.