First Time Saltwater LR LF setup

[ThisGuy12]

Hi everyone;

First I'd like to say your forum and site has taught me lots about setting up and maintaining a reef ecosystem.

I have designed my setup and would like to hear some feedback prior to putting it all together, some items are not "IDEAL" but they were budget friendly for a first setup, some of my purchases were double or triple what I would actually need but it is future proof and will allow me to upgrade the tank later on if required.

My goal is to house live rock, live sand, and a nice reef with some exotic fish.

Here are my planned specs thus far:

Display Tank: 28 (30) gallon bow front - glass
Pump: Hagen Aquaclear 110 powerhead (900gph)
Powerhead(s): Hydor Koralia (240gph)
Skimmer: Eshopps PSK-75H HOB Protein Skimmer
DT Lighting: 4'-0" T5 4 bulb fixture with LED nightlight
Sump Tank: 20 gallon high - glass
Heater: Hydor 250w w/ thermostat

Fish:
(2) Percula Clownfish
(1) Blue Regal Tang
(1) Emperor Angelfish Small
(1) CopperBand Butterfly
(6) Green Chromis

Crabs: (2 will be in sump refugium)
(5) Scarlet Hermit Crab
(5) Blue Legged Hermit Crab
(1) Emerald Green Crab
(1) Porcelain Crab

Snails:
(5) Nussarius Snail
(4) Mexican Turbo Snail
(4) Red Band Turbo Snail
(2) Olive Snail

Shrimp:
(1) Sexy Shrimp
(1) Fire Shrimp

Corals:
(1) Sun Coral
(1) Torch Coral
(1) Frogspawn Coral
(1) Yellow Polyp Soft Coral
(1) Blue Mushroom Coral

Sump will house all the mechanical equipment including the HOB Protein Skimmer, a central refugium w/ live rock and dead sand and a few snails, and the recirc pump.

Here is the design of my cabinet / tank overflow:

And my sump design:

Thoughts? I hope I'm on the right track, I'm one to do as much research as possible before I start tinkering.

Cheers

 

[ThisGuy12]

Anyone?

 

[woodnaquanut]

First thing that jumps out at me is fish selection. Fish either grow or die. The tang and AF are WAY to big for that tank - or will be soon. The BF is a hard to keep fish and not recommended for beginners.

Most people's experience with chromis is there will be one winner and the rest will die. In a tank this small (sorry 30g is a small SW tank) they will be stressed causing even more fighting.

There are lots of small fish that stay small. You'd be better off and the fish would be better off if you stuck to them. The other characteristic you want to look for is fish that like to stay close to one spot. Tangs are the exact opposite of this. They want to cruise all the time.

 

[jong11]

I'd go with a different skimmer, the psk 75h is loud and a pia. Why not get a in sump skimmer?

 

[ThisGuy12]

First thing that jumps out at me is fish selection. Fish either grow or die. The tang and AF are WAY to big for that tank - or will be soon. The BF is a hard to keep fish and not recommended for beginners.

Most people's experience with chromis is there will be one winner and the rest will die. In a tank this small (sorry 30g is a small SW tank) they will be stressed causing even more fighting.

There are lots of small fish that stay small. You'd be better off and the fish would be better off if you stuck to them. The other characteristic you want to look for is fish that like to stay close to one spot. Tangs are the exact opposite of this. They want to cruise all the time.

Appreciate someone finally responding to this thread, thank you very much

The tang and AF were "wish" fish, I will probably forget about them and go for something else. Appreciate your comments on the chromis I have also read that, they are like gladiators, survival of the fittest.

I want a nice mix of small fish with a couple medium fish for colour and visual differences.

I know the 30ga is a small tank for a SW reef but this is also a starter, 90% certain I will end up upgrading to a larger tank within a few years, especially once my wife sees how cool they are.

I'd go with a different skimmer, the psk 75h is loud and a pia. Why not get a in sump skimmer?

Thanks for the input, noted, I guess I should mention that the bottom sump area is insulated and well built with the sump sitting on dampeners. I've also heard they are noisy, I plan on reducing the noise with some polystyrene foam.

I already have the skimmer, so I'll give it a shot

As for why not do an in sump, reason being is for space. I had a 20ga high tank given to me figured it would be a good sump, I want to maximize my fuge and return (and have already modified the design while drawing on the tank). Hang on backs allow me to fully utilize the space efficiently without having to go to a larger sump.

Another design change is I'm designing an automatic top off system with a 5gallon jug.

 

[woodnaquanut]

It's generally considered a bad idea to buy a fish that doesn't fit because you'll upgrade soon. 'Soon' is almost never soon enough. The fish is stressed and either doesn't do well or becomes a tyrant. Neither of these makes the spouse love the tank!

Noise is another issue. Fishtankfreeks (you know who you are!) are willing to put up with large amounts of bubbles, gurgles, burps, slurps and humming from the tank(s). Spouses, not so much.

As to fish, first I stock the 'working' fish. Almost always algae eaters. New tanks are algae farms. Getting the inhabitants to clean up is wonderful. Snails and hermit crabs can be part of this. A Blenny, like my Starry Blenny, are great at algae mowing. When I brought home the starry my wife wanted to know why I bought such a 'plain' fish. It's now her favorite. Such a strange body and face, perhaps considered ugly, is cute in the same way a Pug or English Bulldog is cute.

This is getting long so I'll stop soon!

You are reading, thinking and asking questions. This is all positive.

Take pictures. It's sometimes hard to see progress and looking back at pics helps.

 

[scubadan206]

I'd go with a different skimmer, the psk 75h is loud and a pia. Why not get a in sump skimmer?

I agree with the in sump skimmer part. I bought a HOB reef octopus before deciding to add a sump to my tank. Now it hangs on my sump like your drawing. It's noisy and very inefficient of a design. I wish I would have just bought a good recirculating skimmer first off. Your's will work, but you will soon be kicking yourself..
P.S. A 20 gallon is much too small to have a 'fuge along with all the rest. 20 gal JUST for refugium would be a good start. I also like Miracle Mud as a substrate instead of sand in it. Look into it, it's like a time release vitamin for your tank..
Daniel:wildone:

 

[scubadan206]

Upgrades...

Upgrades...

BTW. I like that your return is oversized. It will give headroom for when you decide you need to run other things off it[reactors]. Two things you should get IMO. Tank controller, and controllable powerheads. Especially with soft corals. It will be great to see them move around. A controller will help you program failsafes into the system. I had a titanium heater cook 110 [degrees] some liverock for me, so do not rely on the heater to govern itself...+1 on pictures...
Daniel:wildone:

 

[scubadan206]

Appreciate someone finally responding to this thread, thank you very much

The tang and AF were "wish" fish, I will probably forget about them and go for something else. Appreciate your comments on the chromis I have also read that, they are like gladiators, survival of the fittest.

I want a nice mix of small fish with a couple medium fish for colour and visual differences.

I know the 30ga is a small tank for a SW reef but this is also a starter, 90% certain I will end up upgrading to a larger tank within a few years, especially once my wife sees how cool they are.

Thanks for the input, noted, I guess I should mention that the bottom sump area is insulated and well built with the sump sitting on dampeners. I've also heard they are noisy, I plan on reducing the noise with some polystyrene foam.

I already have the skimmer, so I'll give it a shot

As for why not do an in sump, reason being is for space. I had a 20ga high tank given to me figured it would be a good sump, I want to maximize my fuge and return (and have already modified the design while drawing on the tank). Hang on backs allow me to fully utilize the space efficiently without having to go to a larger sump.
Please have the tank drilled for an overflow. Mine is not and I worry about the siphon overflow CONSTANTLY. Will go coast to coast overflow on my next project. If you plan on using a blue semi-clear water cooler jug for your top off, do not mix in Kalkwasser. Use glass or acrylic as the Kalk mixture may eat through the plastic like on mine...
Another design change is I'm designing an automatic top off system with a 5gallon jug.

 

[scubadan206]

First thing that jumps out at me is fish selection. Fish either grow or die. The tang and AF are WAY to big for that tank - or will be soon. The BF is a hard to keep fish and not recommended for beginners.

Most people's experience with chromis is there will be one winner and the rest will die. In a tank this small (sorry 30g is a small SW tank) they will be stressed causing even more fighting.

There are lots of small fish that stay small. You'd be better off and the fish would be better off if you stuck to them. The other characteristic you want to look for is fish that like to stay close to one spot. Tangs are the exact opposite of this. They want to cruise all the time.

Mabey try a bristletooth tang as they get 6 inch max. Been looking for this fish, Ctenochaetus flavicauda. Google it..
Daniel:wildone:

 

[forty]

I like where all of this is headed, cant wait to see some pictures.

 

[makxc50099]

I agree with that you have to re-think the fish choices. Also be careful with the snail selection. 8 Turbos will soon starve in a 30

 

[ThisGuy12]

Thanks all for the comments!

I have pics on my phone, need to upload them. Currently the cabinet is being built by one of my millworker friends, he's a bit backed up so chances are I won't have it until the end of February. Not a big deal, gives me time to get the sump and plumbing for the DT figured out.

The fish list was more of a "wish list" as it gets closer to actually stocking the tank I'll likely change it again Still need to do some research on optimal amount of snails / crabs with the Live Rock and corals I want.

I have 80% of my parts already, started a "dry" run by placing the parts in the sump on Friday. Drew out the baffles onto the 20ga tank, and attempted to cut some glass. Didn't work out all that well, so I'm heading out today after work to get some acrylic. Much easier to work with

I'll also be picking up some egg crating (light diffuser) today to keep the snails in the center portion of the sump and not into the return pumps

I considered drilling the tank, but decided to run a dual overflow instead, considering my siphon break will be 1/4" below the waterline on the return (or even at the water line) I'm not worried about overflow all that much. My buddy runs a similar setup just with one drain instead of two, I want to run two for that extra peace of mind.

Sorry about the lack of pics, I'll get some tonight of the sump setup thus far and will take pics of the DT when I get it back from my millworker (he's using it to template the curves).

*EDIT* after talking with my local builder he suggested I remove the ball valve from the RL and put in a T back to the overflow chamber of the sump, thoughts?

 

[itworks]

I have also setup a 28 Gallon bow front as my first marine tank. It is currently FOWLR.

I am running a 10 gallon sump and a bean animal overflow. Its probably overkill but so is yours (from your drawings anyways)

I have the return pump teed off back to the sump with a ball valve. I have dual returns drilled into the glass, using 1/2" bulkheads and loc-lines. The loc-line are drilled to create a siphon break and positioned such that the DT drains right up to the trim of the sump when pumps are off.

I also setup a gravity style ATO using a float switch and 4 gallon jug.

I don't see you mentioning RO/DI water, that is probably your best investment.

I'm also using two koralia 425's for flow.

I attempted to cut my own glass baffles and failed. so I got a local glass shop to do the job, at it costs only $12.00! Which should be much cheaper than acrylic.

Hope that gives you some ideas.

 

[viggen]

like stated the angel and tang are a negative. The angel needs a tank at least 6ft long preferably 8ft & the tank can get by in a 6ft tank..... even a 4ft 90/120g is cramped for the tang

I think with most tangs its to small of a tank. Even a bristletooth that gets to 6in its a bit small.

Possibly consider a hawk fish, they do not have a swim bladder and have a awesome personality, I prefer the flame hawk. The hawk, a pair of clown fish & a goby or two if multiples work would be quite nice. Not sure on the dwarf angel fish like a pottersm corab beauty etc.... they stay small but not sure how they would work. Also there are some small wrasse's that might work. Not a clue on specific species but some of those could work in there.

I would then add shrimp.... lots of cool shrimp to choose from.... the coral banded have always been one of my favorites

With the overflow boxes.... yes external can work and be pretty safe.... you just need to be sure the lift tube stays clear and that its setup for when the power goes out.... it will start siphon again when the pump turns on. Where many run into trouble is when the power kicks on and the return pump is filling the tank up.... the tank itself overflows due to the siphon being lost and nowhere for the water to go. Just be sure that this cannot happen and you will be fine!

Not sure if this was mentioned but I also wouldnt use such a large heater. The problem with a large heater is WHEN the heater sticks on it will take a hour or two to kill the tank thus making it very difficult to catch in time. A 50-100w heater can still easily keep up with your tank and if the heater does stick on for some reason..... it might take it a day or so to cause damage. I prefer always running two heaters. One set at the temp I want the tank maintained at and the second heater set 5 or so degrees lower. Thats way the second heater is a backup..... and both heaters arent fighting each other attemptiing to maintain tank temp.

AWESOME jop on the scetches! Thats so cool!!!

 

[ThisGuy12]

I have also setup a 28 Gallon bow front as my first marine tank. It is currently FOWLR.

I am running a 10 gallon sump and a bean animal overflow. Its probably overkill but so is yours (from your drawings anyways)

I have the return pump teed off back to the sump with a ball valve. I have dual returns drilled into the glass, using 1/2" bulkheads and loc-lines. The loc-line are drilled to create a siphon break and positioned such that the DT drains right up to the trim of the sump when pumps are off.

I also setup a gravity style ATO using a float switch and 4 gallon jug.

I don't see you mentioning RO/DI water, that is probably your best investment.

I'm also using two koralia 425's for flow.

I attempted to cut my own glass baffles and failed. so I got a local glass shop to do the job, at it costs only $12.00! Which should be much cheaper than acrylic.

Hope that gives you some ideas.

Very informative, thanks! I am planning on using RO/DI water (duh ) and have a RO/DI system built onto a tap in my house to be able to fill and top up the system.

I wanted to design the system as future proof as possible up to 75gallons. Also worth noting I will be setting up a 10gallon quarantine tank for newcomers and sick fishies, this way once the ecosystem is up and running I minimize any disturbances as much as possible.

@viggen, thanks for the fish recommendation, I'll look into those

As for the heater, yes it's a bit strong, it does have a failsafe built into it, plus I'm going to rig up my own failsafe where if the water temperature rises above a threshold it will kill power to the heater.

I'm very versed in AutoCAD and 3D designing, used that and the power of my 3rd eye (I can visualize things in 3d before I build or design them) to come up with this design. Hopefully it works out, I will tweak it along the way to make it as efficient as possible.

Has anyone used this type of dual overflow setup without an overflow box? I'm planning on using black PVC to blend it into my background. Thoughts?

 

[ThisGuy12]

Pics of the Sump. It's not much but as you can see I have the 20 gal tall tank laid out the baffles on the side of the tank already, and fit all my equipment in place to ensure the layout works.

I need to extend the return and supply of the HOB Eshopps PSK-75H skimmer since the water level will be lower than where the pipes currently are.

Also changed my mind about the heater, picked up a Cobalt Neo-Therm 150watt heater, and am building a failsafe backup, not sure how digital I want to go yet.

Pics....

 

[scubadan206]

Thanks all for the comments!

I have pics on my phone, need to upload them. Currently the cabinet is being built by one of my millworker friends, he's a bit backed up so chances are I won't have it until the end of February. Not a big deal, gives me time to get the sump and plumbing for the DT figured out.

The fish list was more of a "wish list" as it gets closer to actually stocking the tank I'll likely change it again Still need to do some research on optimal amount of snails / crabs with the Live Rock and corals I want.

I have 80% of my parts already, started a "dry" run by placing the parts in the sump on Friday. Drew out the baffles onto the 20ga tank, and attempted to cut some glass. Didn't work out all that well, so I'm heading out today after work to get some acrylic. Much easier to work with

I'll also be picking up some egg crating (light diffuser) today to keep the snails in the center portion of the sump and not into the return pumps

I considered drilling the tank, but decided to run a dual overflow instead, considering my siphon break will be 1/4" below the waterline on the return (or even at the water line) I'm not worried about overflow all that much. My buddy runs a similar setup just with one drain instead of two, I want to run two for that extra peace of mind.

Sorry about the lack of pics, I'll get some tonight of the sump setup thus far and will take pics of the DT when I get it back from my millworker (he's using it to template the curves).

*EDIT* after talking with my local builder he suggested I remove the ball valve from the RL and put in a T back to the overflow chamber of the sump, thoughts?
The "T" in the return is like a pressure relief valve to protect the pump from unnecessary back-pressure. A good idea. You will eventually want to add reactors of some kind which will do the same. Make sure you have a way to restart the siphon automatically, or make sure you have a very small return section in the sump. It is too easy to overflow the tank or the sump with a siphon overflow IMO. The snails will be too large to cause a problem with the return pump, but you can just be careful. Good pics, thanks. The [two heaters] idea is good advice, and I hope you have a sure thing for never having to deal with a suck heater.
Daniel :wildone:

 

[ThatGuy961]

Good Luck with the build! I'm just about to start with my 125 gallon and I like your layout..

 

[ThisGuy12]

Good Luck with the build! I'm just about to start with my 125 gallon and I like your layout..

Thanks! Feel free to "borrow" any ideas or designs you want too

More pics coming this weekend when I actually have time to start working on the baffles.