Fish dying, help

[hkgar]

Update: two more fish died with the exact same symptoms and progression (damage to slime coat, then dead within 24 hrs). I googled some more pictures and am now convinced my tank has Brooklynella. My two most healthy fish, the female clown and Melanurus wrasse, so far seem to be fending it off, but I hear they are probably still carriers even if they are asymptomatic. I will either need to see if I can set up QT for these two (the wrasse may be hard since he's probably too big to live in a 10g for 8 weeks) or see if the LFS will take them back and treat them. Unless they die of course (no that I want that). Either way I need to leave the display tank fishless for a good 8 week period.

THIS EXPERIENCE HAS CONVINCED ME TO RUN A QT. So something was accomplished at least.

I am also going to change 10g of water since I have it mixed and ready, since it will probably be good for the corals and inverts even if it has nothing to do with the brook problem.

I really appreciate the help and advice.

In a way you are lucky. I very strongly recommend TTM for Ick and a follow up period of QT.

I played Russian Roulette for almost 6 years before my tank was quickly decimated (9 fish lost) from an outbreak of Ick, that I got from my very reliable LFS.

You will become one of those who will not accept "no room" as an excuse. Anyone coming into this hobby needs to have room for a DT, sump and TTM with PraziPro and QT.

 

[EugeneReef]

Depending on what is the disease is 8 weeks i not enough. Generally 10 weeks is a more appropriate time frame. If you do that yes, it ensures they are no longer carriers and tank is disease free. Qt and DT needs to be in separate rooms and they should never share any wet equipment, including the fish net.

Ruby reef rally is snake oil. Only thing it will achieve will be making you $10 poorer.

This seemingly credible and very detailed article on Brooklynella (also on reefcentral) seems to indicate that acriflavine is viable (Ruby reef rally is acriflavine): http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2388437

That's the interesting thing about this hobby, ask one question get 3 different answers.

 

[Tripod1404]

This seemingly credible and very detailed article on Brooklynella (also on reefcentral) seems to indicate that acriflavine is viable (Ruby reef rally is acriflavine): http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2388437

That's the interesting thing about this hobby, ask one question get 3 different answers.

Ruby reef rally is not acriflavine, it contains an unknown amount acriflavine. Since we dont know the exact amount, nobody really known the amount of Ruby reef rally that is required to have therapeutic levels of acriflavine. Based on that link, its effective concentration is 6 ppm. For a 230L tank you have, that means 1.4g per day.

Acriflavine do has some anecdotal success against treating brooks, some people had success while other did not. Some use it as a quick bath before treating fish with copper in qt. The issue is it only has "partial" success against brooks, if you have something else like ich, velvet, etc, it wont help. Since you are going to qt fish anyways, why dont use copper that has proven success against all protozoan parasites? .

 

[EugeneReef]

Ruby reef rally is not acriflavine, it contains an unknown amount acriflavine. Since we dont know the exact amount, nobody really known the amount of Ruby reef rally that is required to have therapeutic levels of acriflavine. Based on that link, its effective concentration is 6 ppm. For a 230L tank you have, that means 1.4g per day.

Acriflavine do has some anecdotal success against treating brooks, some people had success while other did not. Some use it as a quick bath before treating fish with copper in qt. The issue is it only has "partial" success against brooks, if you have something else like ich, velvet, etc, it wont help. Since you are going to qt fish anyways, why dont use copper that has proven success against all protozoan parasites? .

Ah I hadn't realize it was an unknown quantity of Acriflavine. That's disappointing. Ruby reef seems to be the ONLY way I can order Acriflavine over Amazon (my preferred method of delivery) which is why I had focused in on that product.

Copper seems to make sense doesn't it but then I read this: https://www.thesprucepets.com/clownfish-disease-diagnosis-and-treatment-2924981

Suggestions range from copper, malachite green and other remedies, with some recommended being used in conjunction with formaldehyde.

However, the consensus is these types of medications are either largely ineffective or do not work at all, and that the best and most effective treatment for Brooklynella is formaldehyde alone. Typically a standard 37% formalin solution (shop & compare prices) is mixed with either fresh or saltwater in a separate treatment container. Initially, all fish are given a quick dip or a prolonged bath, followed by continued treatment and care in a QT. Of course, the longer fish are exposed to the formalin treatment, the more effective it will be at eliminating this "disease." Whether to administer a dip or a bath to start with is something you will have to determine yourself, but there's a very simple way to do this.

(This is not the only source I found stating that copper is ineffective against brooks, just the first one I could find at the moment)

So they're telling me to do a formalin dip but, it seems odd at the least to treat an asymptomatic fish with a dip. How do you know it's working if there are no symptoms? Treating the QT water makes a lot more sense to me, create a hostile environment where the parasite can't live. Seems like a lot less potential for me as a new hobbyist to screw something up! But you obviously can't treat the QT tank with formalin like you can cupramine or acriflavine.

Lots of conflicting info out there and hard to sort through at this point!

I can't even seem to find a solid answer on whether or not brooks can survive in a sandless QT with a fish in it. In theory it could keep bouncing from the glass to the fish to the glass forever even if I did do dips (another reason I don't want to do dips)

 

[Tripod1404]

Ah I hadn't realize it was an unknown quantity of Acriflavine. That's disappointing. Ruby reef seems to be the ONLY way I can order Acriflavine over Amazon (my preferred method of delivery) which is why I had focused in on that product.

Copper seems to make sense doesn't it but then I read this: https://www.thesprucepets.com/clownfish-disease-diagnosis-and-treatment-2924981



(This is not the only source I found stating that copper is ineffective against brooks, just the first one I could find at the moment)

So they're telling me to do a formalin dip but, it seems odd at the least to treat an asymptomatic fish with a dip. How do you know it's working if there are no symptoms? Treating the QT water makes a lot more sense to me, create a hostile environment where the parasite can't live. Seems like a lot less potential for me as a new hobbyist to screw something up! But you obviously can't treat the QT tank with formalin like you can cupramine or acriflavine.

Lots of conflicting info out there and hard to sort through at this point!

I can't even seem to find a solid answer on whether or not brooks can survive in a sandless QT with a fish in it. In theory it could keep bouncing from the glass to the fish to the glass forever even if I did do dips (another reason I don't want to do dips)

You can use formalin dip followed by qt with low amount of formalin. Formalin kills a wide range of parasites as well, but it is a nasty chemical.

I dont exactly remember the dose but it was something like 200ppm for dip followed by 20ppm in qt. You need to dip the fish every day for the first 3 day and every other day after that and after each dip, retunr it to qt with formalin. Again I dont remember the exact procedure, so you need to check how long you should do it as well.

Also be very carefull while working with formalin, it is very toxic.

 

[Tripod1404]

I went a head and found what I think is the amount of acriflavine in ruby reef rally. Ruby reef rally seems to be the rebranded version of FishVet Revive;

http://www.fishvet.com/revive.htm

They have the same bottle, etc. MSDS of this shows it has <2% Acriflavine. So you can calculate the approximate amount by say taking it as 1.5%.

 

[EugeneReef]

I went a head and found what I think is the amount of acriflavine in ruby reef rally. Ruby reef rally seems to be the rebranded version of FishVet Revive;

http://www.fishvet.com/revive.htm

They have the same bottle, etc. MSDS of this shows it has <2% Acriflavine. So you can calculate the approximate amount by say taking it as 1.5%.

That's super helpful, thanks!