Fish dying!

[Jackwkahn]

my 40 br had a lyretail anthias, blue tang (no flame please, hes tiny, going to a friends 180), leopard wrasse, pair of firefish, pair of false percs, royal gramma, and a chromis. The royal gramma and anthias both disappeared. Then i went out and bought a bicolor blenny. He seemed awesome for about a week, then just freaked out and died on me. then i lost my male ocellaris without a trace. Now I have 2x purple firefish, female ocellaris, blue tang, leopard wrasse and chromis, all thriving and eating pellets and frozen mysis (leopard only eats mysis). So I put the female ocellaris in isolation after my brother comes home with a picasso perc, black ocellaris, and kole tang. after two days, i awake to find the kole dead, his eyes missing. the next day the black ocellaris was found with a hole in his body, seemingly eaten through the hole. after two days out of town, i come home to a missing picasso. The leopard, tang, female ocellaris, firefish, and chromis all continue to thrive and eat a lot. please help!

 

[sneaton]

thats alot of fish for a 40....check ammonia to see if the new additions caused a cycle

 

[Jackwkahn]

wouldnt such a cycle be more unforgiving to sensitive fish like the leopard wrasse instead of hardier fish like the kole and black ocellaris?

 

[sneaton]

how long were the fish in the bag? how did you acclimate?

 

[Jackwkahn]

fish were in the bag maybe 30 min before getting home. temp acclimated and then partially replaced store water in the bag with tank water.

 

[Dragon moray ki]

Could have spiked ammonia in the bag or the fish could have been sick. Or you may have a parisite from the rock.

 

[Jackwkahn]

what kind of parasite? i know that leopards are extremely susceptible to internal parasites and he eats like crazy, poops thick and brown not stringy at all

 

[ssavader]

Any chance you have a mantis shrimp that came in as a hitch hiker? If a fish dies and has obviously been acutely traumatized look for the killer. Missing eyes are not exactly mantis shrimp MO, but disappearing fish are.

I also would agree that you are over stocked and are adding way too many fish at once , and obviously with no quarantine. With all due respect, do some reading on marine fish space requirements, appropriate tank mates, quarantine procedures, and testing parameters.

 

[Peter T]

With as many fish as you had, ammonia poisoning could of easily been the culprit. You had more fish in your 40b than my former 4 tanks (with more than double your water volume) combined. Lack of oxygen may of also been the cause. When the lights go out at night, corals and algae cease creating oxygen through the process of photosynthesis. This in turn increases the amount of CO2 in the water and lowers the amount of O2 in the water. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they just simply ran out of oxygen in the middle of the night. This is especially true if you have a covered tank. Missing fish in a tank is no surprise either. The clean up crew plus fireworms and bristleworms can easily eat a fish over the course of a night.

However, I do not believe a mantis shrimp did this. Mantis shrimp come in two types, smashers and spearers. Smashing mantis shrimp prey primarily on snails, crabs, clams, and various hard shelled animals. Spearers generally prey on fish and shrimp. Spearing mantis shrimp are rarely found as hitchhikers in live rock because their natural habitat are sand burrows in the sand bed. They do not live in live rock; finding one as a hitchhiker is highly unlikely. To my knowledge, juvenile Pseudosquilla ciliata are the only spearing mantis shrimp that lives in live rock cavities. Even if a full grown P. ciliata was a hitchhiker, it only reaches about 10cm. Definitely not big enough to kill all the fish listed in that short amount of time. They also happen to be diurnal and close up their burrows at night.

Smashing mantis shrimp on the other hand, can and often make their home in the rock and are found as hitchhikers. They are more suited to chip, break, and burrow in live rock because of their smashing raptoral appendages. If you do have a smashing mantis shrimp in the tank big enough to kill and eat fish, you should be noticing your clean up crew slowly disappearing. There will be shells laying around close to each other that are broken and shattered.

If you look to the left on this photo, you can clearly see a shell that has been broken by a mantis shrimp. There will be alot of these laying around the tank if you have a mantis large enough to kill and eat fish.

 

[Peter T]

wouldnt such a cycle be more unforgiving to sensitive fish like the leopard wrasse instead of hardier fish like the kole and black ocellaris?

Generally it would be. But it is hard to gauge and measure the affects of stress in fish. Your kole tang and black ocellaris may have been stressed out (due to lack of room, aggression, etc.) to the point that their immune system was weakened. With a weakened immune system, things that the fish may of been able to survive through can now kill a fish; ammonia for instance.

 

[Jackwkahn]

yes I do not qt my fish and there is nothing around the fact that this is a bad practice. however the fish you see listed before the two clowns & kole tang were added over a 4 month period. I am running a reef octo 125 on my tank, TLF holding np biopellets, MP10 (working on getting another) and chemipure in a HOB filter on the sump. I have a Euphyllia divisa, Plerogyra sinuosa, Acropora tortuosa, and Montipora capricornis that continue to show nice PE and remain unaffected as these fish die. I do believe that the three fish were added to quickly but I had no way around it (if you read my little brother brought home the fish) and I am somewhat confident that I am running sufficient equipment to handle such a bioload. I also clean my skimmer daily so it runs very efficiently.

 

[Jackwkahn]

Any chance you have a mantis shrimp that came in as a hitch hiker? If a fish dies and has obviously been acutely traumatized look for the killer. Missing eyes are not exactly mantis shrimp MO, but disappearing fish are.

I also would agree that you are over stocked and are adding way too many fish at once , and obviously with no quarantine. With all due respect, do some reading on marine fish space requirements, appropriate tank mates, quarantine procedures, and testing parameters.

Yes the hepatus tang should not be in my tank. However he is, He is happy, eats like crazy, fights with no other fish, and will be moving to a 180 soon enough (he is just about larger than a quarter right now). As far as appropriate tank mates go, I see nothing wrong there. None of my fish ever fought (to my knowledge and based on my heavy daily observations of the tank). I test regularly and QT is something that I have not done and yes that is my fault. Is it really as simple as a 20 long with a HOB filter, Heater, and some PVC?

 

[MrTuskfish]

I haven't got a real answer on your fish losses; but I think the way you are choosing fish makes loss inevitable.I'd really do some research on fish before you buy them. For starters: No more comments about the tang other than it just doesn't belong in a 40 gal. Leopard wrasse are very difficult, often considered ''expert only" fish. Clownfish species should never be mixed, especially in a small tank. Even with one species, never keep more than 2 unless they are small juvis. Anthias seldom do well in anything other than mature reef tank. I'd avoid impulse buys and check fish comparability first.

 

[SushiGirl]

Bioload isn't all there is to it when it comes to fish death. Bullying from overcrowding and mixing fish that don't get along is, from what I've seen various people report, the #1 reason for fish death.

 

[Jackwkahn]

I did research the lyretail anthias and found out that they are a great beginner anthias and do well alone, so i found a healthy specimen. Did well eating frozen mysis for about 3 weeks and then just disappeared on me. If you would have cared to read my other posts my leopard wrasse is thriving, shows no aggression, picks of the rocks 24/7 and destroys frozen mysis. I did know they were expert only but seeing a healthy one already eating at the lfs for $15 I went for it. She's still doing awesome, feeding her right now actually. My brother picked up a Picasso Percula and what was sold to us as a Black percula (later found out that such a fish doesnt exist, and it was ocellaris, did some research and found out percs and black ocellaris can breed to produce "photon clowns") Before these two clowns were introduced, the original ocellaris was placed in isolation to avoid any fighting.

 

[Jackwkahn]

Bioload isn't all there is to it when it comes to fish death. Bullying from overcrowding and mixing fish that don't get along is, from what I've seen various people report, the #1 reason for fish death.

The only hint of aggression I have ever noticed in my tank was the bicolor blenny chasing the firefish, except the bicolor blenny just up and died one day after a week or two of healthy behavior in my tank while the firefish continue to thrive. I may not be all that experienced but Im pretty sure that all my fish "got along".

 

[Jackwkahn]

the only two things that I recognize as at the fault of the aquarist are
1. introduction of 2nd tang (kole)
2. lack of QT

 

[SushiGirl]

If the blenny was chasing the firefish then there was aggression, which means they weren't all "getting along." A fish with its eyes missing and one with a hole in it also shows they weren't all "getting along."

As for researching the Lyretail anthias, you must have missed that it's semi-aggressive and minimum recommended tank size is 125 gallons.

Good luck.

 

[Jackwkahn]

If the blenny was chasing the firefish then there was aggression, which means they weren't all "getting along." A fish with its eyes missing and one with a hole in it also shows they weren't all "getting along."

As for researching the Lyretail anthias, you must have missed that it's semi-aggressive and minimum recommended tank size is 125 gallons.

Good luck.

The kole tang's eyes were completely gone as a result of a hungry CUC, it was dead in my tank for several hours before I was able to remove it. You cannot be seriously suggesting that other fish went after its eyes during the night hours when all but the ocellaris clown remain hiding deep within the rock work. Also not one fish bothered the tang/clown in the few days they were in my tank. The hole in the clown was also definitely CUC inflicted, I saw the crab on the body when I pulled it out (also dead in the tank for several hours). The bicolor blenny chased the firefish maybe twice before his demise within 3 weeks. I received much opposing information regarding Anthias tank size and decided to get one after seeing a trio of lyretail anthias in a BRS TV 40br. Again- none of my fish show any aggression/territory issues. I may not be all that experienced, but I'm not an idiot, and if you don't believe me, that's your problem. I appreciate the input, but you need to understand that in my tank, all of my fish are very peaceful and your idea that aggression played any role in these deaths is invalid.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I did research the lyretail anthias and found out that they are a great beginner anthias and do well alone, so i found a healthy specimen. Did well eating frozen mysis for about 3 weeks and then just disappeared on me. If you would have cared to read my other posts my leopard wrasse is thriving, shows no aggression, picks of the rocks 24/7 and destroys frozen mysis. I did know they were expert only but seeing a healthy one already eating at the lfs for $15 I went for it. She's still doing awesome, feeding her right now actually. My brother picked up a Picasso Percula and what was sold to us as a Black percula (later found out that such a fish doesnt exist, and it was ocellaris, did some research and found out percs and black ocellaris can breed to produce "photon clowns") Before these two clowns were introduced, the original ocellaris was placed in isolation to avoid any fighting.

I'm sure not trying to be overly critical; but you simply have too many fish in a newly set-up small tank. I'm glad the wrasse is doing well, Lyretyails are good first anthias; but any anthias is not a beginners fish and a 40 gal, immature reef is not an appropriate tank. Perculas and Ocellaris will seldom share a small tank without a war. The tangs are obvious. No more than, say, two small fish should be added to a small tank at any one time. I could go on, and am certainly not arguing; but your choice of fish & timing (IMO & IME) is simply a big problem. If your profile is correct; you're moving much too fast. I know how tempting fish at the LFS can be; but impatience is probably responsible for more fish losses than any other single cause. Again, I'm not trying to be overly critical; but i can't properly respond to your problem without pointing this out. Very simply, again IMO & IME, I think fish selection and the rate they are being added are responsible for your losses; either directly or indirectly.