Fish Dying

[squid row]

My tank is a 20 gallon with a HOB marineland filter

I set it up using water from my LFS, dead sand and rock from Marco rocks

Waited until ammonia, nitrites and nitrates were zero and brought water to the LFS for double testing before adding live stock

First fish in the tank were:
5 tiny (smaller than 1/2 inch) blue/green chromis and 1 (1/2 inch) clown

The fish all looked great but after a day, they all started hiding in the rocks and died (except the clown he seems to be fine)

Took some water back to LFS and had it checked again, all parameters looked "perfect" according to the LFS rep, so I tried two firefish.

First night , first firefish died

Three nights later, second fire fish is dead.

Clownfish still looks great but is super skittish

Only thing different I notice in the tank is a brown algae overtaking the rocks (I think it is diatom..it is a carpet looking algae with bubbles)

Any insight? I am not adding another fish until I figure this out

This tank is my experiment tank. I am using it to learn how to set up and maintain properly before I set up my 80 gallon bow front as my main display tank.

Thanks for any ideas

 

[thelawnwrangler]

My tank is a 20 gallon with a HOB marineland filter

I set it up using water from my LFS, dead sand and rock from Marco rocks

Waited until ammonia, nitrites and nitrates were zero and brought water to the LFS for double testing before adding live stock

First fish in the tank were:
5 tiny (smaller than 1/2 inch) blue/green chromis and 1 (1/2 inch) clown

The fish all looked great but after a day, they all started hiding in the rocks and died (except the clown he seems to be fine)

Took some water back to LFS and had it checked again, all parameters looked "perfect" according to the LFS rep, so I tried two firefish.

First night , first firefish died

Three nights later, second fire fish is dead.

Clownfish still looks great but is super skittish

Only thing different I notice in the tank is a brown algae overtaking the rocks (I think it is diatom..it is a carpet looking algae with bubbles)

Any insight? I am not adding another fish until I figure this out

This tank is my experiment tank. I am using it to learn how to set up and maintain properly before I set up my 80 gallon bow front as my main display tank.

Thanks for any ideas

perfect means 0 on ammonia and nitrites?

seems like alot of fish for an unestablished tank. My first guess with out knowing parameters is you had an ammonia spike. I am getting my first fish this week so lets see what more experience folks say.

for the dead fish any white dots or other oddities regarding their bodies?

 

[nuttyd]

Would agree. You are getting your cycle. Just adding water and rocks wont always create the cycle. Thats why alot of us throw in a dead shrimp to kick start the cycle. The fish in this case appear to be the trigger to start the cycle.

 

[chimmike]

i'm not keen on your filtration at all. There's no means of nutrient export. That and the marco rock really should be cure to rid it of phosphates.

 

[Rutrag]

I'm almost certain you had an ammonia spike. It looks like you added 6 fish to a 20L all at once, lost five chromis and replaced with two firefish which was started with old water but new sand and rock. There is incredibly little nitrifying bacteria in the water - it grows mostly on surfaces. I imagine that many fish produced a lot of ammonia and there was no bacteria to detoxify it. You're pretty mush doing a fish-in cycle at this point.
You need to invest in at least an ammonia and nitrite kit and start prepping some saltwater for water changes. Anytime you detect ammonia or nitrite, do a water change. IME, it normally takes at least four weeks for a tank to cycle like this, and sometimes even longer.

 

[squid row]

Wow, thanks for the feedback!

Let me back track a bit.

The tank has been up and running for about six weeks without fish.

I thought I completed the cycle before adding any fish. I waited for the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate to do their thing and when they all came down to zero, that is when I introduced fish.

I just tested for ammonia and it looks like 0.25 or less

 

[Taahirs]

0.25 is too high.


That's way too many fish for a 20g. Max 4 small fish.

 

[A1t2o]

How did you introduce ammonia to the system to start the cycle? Did you add any at all? Also how did you acclimate the fish?

 

[Marchillo]

A couple things. You have to add fish slow with a new tank. You definitely had a spike from the bioload. Heck I only have 5 fish in my 80 and it's been 6 months and they moved over from another tank that was up for 7 months. Plus they went through a qt process. Slower is better.

Chromis will kill each other. I would get one at most.

Anything over zero for ammonia is too much. May be tough for accurate readings after having so many deaths.

You should probably invest in an RODI unit if you are upgrading to an 80G and make plenty of extra water so you can do water changes as needed.

There are many other things that other people can chime in on.

 

[Marchillo]

How did you introduce ammonia to the system to start the cycle? Did you add any at all? Also how did you acclimate the fish?

Yup the acclimation is key as well.

 

[Marchillo]

Also can you give us all your numbers? Perfect means ammonia is 0 not less than 0.25

 

[squid row]

How did you introduce ammonia to the system to start the cycle? Did you add any at all? Also how did you acclimate the fish?

I put some freeze dried brine shrimp in and sat out watching and reading test kit results for five weeks. The ammonia slowly but eventually went way up then down. Same with nitrates and nitrites

Water topped off with RO/DI water and water change done with LFS water. I change approximately three gallons once every two weeks

Link to my first post where I tried to describe my steps on initial tank set up:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2542834

I understand (now anyway) that I introduced too many fish at once

So... my next regularly scheduled water change will be done and I won't add any fish for a little while. My clownfish will be lonely, but I don't want to take a chance until things stabilize

Does that seem like a reasonable plan?

 

[squid row]

Yup the acclimation is key as well.

Acclimation I followed:

Floated the bags in the tank for 45 minutes to get the temps to match. Then I emptied the bags into plastic containers and added 1 ounce of tank water to the plastic container. Did this about five times and then moved the fish into the tank via net

 

[gone fishin]

I would speculate to many fish at once as well. Even though you cycled the tank the bacteria may have been at a low level, with the addition of so many fish the bacteria was not able to process the waste.

I would not add any more fish for a week or two. FWIW I never really trusted the API kit at low levels of ammonia. I always had a hard time differentiating the color. Good luck just my 2 cents.

 

[fredfish13]

cycled tank should not have any trace ammonia or nitrite in it. probably too many fish in too soon.

 

[Sk8r]

One chromis per 50 gallons. And at least 50 gallons.

 

[CStrickland]

I put some freeze dried brine shrimp in and sat out watching and reading test kit results for five weeks. The ammonia slowly but eventually went way up then down. Same with nitrates and nitrites
Water topped off with RO/DI water and water change done with LFS water. I change approximately three gallons once every two weeks
Link to my first post where I tried to describe my steps on initial tank set up:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2542834
I understand (now anyway) that I introduced too many fish at once
So... my next regularly scheduled water change will be done and I won't add any fish for a little while. My clownfish will be lonely, but I don't want to take a chance until things stabilize
Does that seem like a reasonable plan?

yeah, the thing with the bacteria is you get the cycle going with those first shrimp, but there's a big diff between clearing a few shrimp and several fish. The fish make ammonia constantly, they breathe it out and poop and pee it all day. So you gotta stairstep the bacteria up. Pretty soon your biofilter will be able to handle the one clown, then you can add another fish and let it catch up.

seachem sells little badges that stick inside the glass and turn color for ammonia, they are way better than a drops test IMO. Also, it's good to have some Prime around to dose the tank if there's a mini spike. That'll keep any ammonia from hurting your fish.

Also, when you acclimate it's better to have a QT tank that is the same salinity as the water the fish came in. Then you can just float 15 min for temp and pop him in; then slowly raise at like .001 a day until it matches your dt. The long drawn out drips can be very hard on fish, worse than a quick acclimation. If you cant get a 2nd temporary rig set up, make sure that the temp isn't dropping too much while you are adding the water, they can get chilled fast. Alot of people float for a long time and then let the fish get freezing cold while they drip, and the dump it in a warm tank. That's bad, it only takes a few degrees to kill a chromis (I did it).

 

[1MP3R1AL]

One chromis per 50 gallons. And at least 50 gallons.

I'm going to go ahead and disagree with this statement. While Chromis CAN and DO sometimes fight each other off until one is left, that doesn't mean they all do.

And the 1" or 5" per gallon rule is just bogus. I've seen numerous tanks so called "overstocked" with the fish and coral doing just fine over multiple years. It's all about whether they are compatible with each other, filtration, and how you clean up after them. Skimmer, GFO, carbon etc.

In this case I'm going with ammonia spike killing the fish.

Poor fish.

 

[heathlindner25]

I'm going to go ahead and disagree with this statement. While Chromis CAN and DO sometimes fight each other off until one is left, that doesn't mean they all do.

And the 1" or 5" per gallon rule is just bogus. I've seen numerous tanks so called "overstocked" with the fish and coral doing just fine over multiple years. It's all about whether they are compatible with each other, filtration, and how you clean up after them. Skimmer, GFO, carbon etc.

In this case I'm going with ammonia spike killing the fish.

Poor fish.

+1 , also sound advice

 

[A1t2o]

Acclimation I followed:

Floated the bags in the tank for 45 minutes to get the temps to match. Then I emptied the bags into plastic containers and added 1 ounce of tank water to the plastic container. Did this about five times and then moved the fish into the tank via net

You only added 5 ounces to the bag water? You need to slowly double the water, then drain half, double again, drain half, and double again. Once more for good measure if you are at all concerned about the fish surviving. First doubling should take about 20 min when added bit by bit. After the first, you can speed it up. The 3rd doubling makes it 87.5% tank water, a 4th makes it 93.75% tank water.

You really only need to float the bags for about 20 min to get the temps to match, 45 is too much depending on the bag size. The whole process will probably take about an hour for typical fish. If they are sensitive, then it will take twice as long.