Fish Mix...Advice Needed

FishDad2

FishDad2

Member
I'm in the process of converting my 225 gallon reef tank to a fish-only tank. As I've been a reef guy for many years now and not focused on the fish I feel like I could use some advice / a sanity check on my desired fish list and quantities. Just want to be sure I'm not headed for any problems.

As I said, it's a 225 gallon tank and I will retain the live rock reef structure. I'll also keep the protein skimmer, RODI and other filtration elements in place for the reef as I see no reason not to continue maintaining high water quality. Essentially, I'll be removing the corals, halide lamps and I'll stop dosing calcium, etc....everything else will remain the same.

That being said, below is the fish list I'm considering, listed with quantities desired and in order of preference. So for example, with the large angles I intend to get just 1 of the fish listed, with an Emperor being my top choice. Please let me know if you see any issues.

Angelfish, Dwarf (qty. 3-5)
Flame Angelfish
Bicolor Angelfish
Singapore Angelfish
Coral Beauty Angelfish
Lemonpeel Angelfish
Flameback Angelfish

Angelfish, Large (qty. 1)
Emperor Angelfish (adult)
Blue Girdled Angelfish (adult)
Queen Angelfish (adult)

Butterflyfish (qty. 3-5)
Copperband Butterflyfish
Falcula Butterflyfish
Saddleback Butterflyfish
Raccoon Butterflyfish
Latticed Butterflyfish
Auriga Butterflyfish

Tangs (qty. 1-2)
Yellow Tang (own)
Powder Blue Tang
Blonde Naso Tang

Anthias (qty. 2-5)
Lyretail Anthias (female - 2 or 3) (own 1)
Lyretail Anthias (male - 1) (own)
Fathead Sunburst Anthias (1)

Wrasses (qty. 1-4)
Harlequin Tusk
Six-Line Wrasse (own)
Carpenter's Flasher Wrasse
Red Velvet Fairy Wrasse

Bassletts(qty. 1)
Royal Gramma (own)

Cardinalfish(qyt. 1)
Banggai Cardinalfish (own)

Clownfish(1)
Ocellaris Clownfish
Tomato Clownfish (own but may trade-in)

Foxface(qty. 1)
Foxface Lo

Gobies (qty. 1-2)
Citrinis Clown Goby
Green Clown Goby

Note that I intend to add the peaceful fish first and allow them time to get nice and comfortable in the tank before adding the more aggressive species. That said, I don't think anything on the list is particularly aggressive but certainly some fall into that "semi-aggressive" classification.

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks,
Chris
 
That's plenty of fish.A few possible "issues'' (hate that word): many butterflies (like the CB) don't do well with many very active tankmates, not necessarily aggressive, and your list has several. The Harlequin Tusk, a magnificent fish, is not above eating fish (and most inverts) the size of small clowns, grammas, cardinals, etc. I have 3 and all will eat small fish. Naso tangs get huge, even too big for your tank and the number of fish you plan on keeping. The Emperor gets big too, but (IMO) will be OK; get a juvi. Adults don't acclimate well and you miss the great feeling of watching them change to adult colors. Just go slowly and plan on removing a fish or two if they don't work.
 
I had a feeling about the Harlequin Tusk and I know the Copperband will be a challenge. I may well drop the Tusk from the list. As for the Copperband, I really love that fish and want to give one a shot. My plan is to get it early so it has time to settle in and get comfortable...get one on the larger side so it has a better chance of standing up for itself or just not getting chased in the first place.

As for the Tangs, I'll likely stick with just the Yellow that I already own and perhaps add the Powder Blue. The Naso was not likely but I am considering. If it's going to get huge though, it's out of the mix.

As you point out, some of these fish do get big and I will have to think carefully about how many of the larger ones I might add. I may have to scale back the quantities with the biggies.

Interesting about the Emperor adult not acclimating as well as a juvenile. I was thinking about getting a small adult but now I may switch to a large juvenile instead.

Thanks...keep the feedback coming.
 
Just a couple things to watch, IMO & IME. It sounds like the yellow tang, and the other fish you're keeping, are staying in the same tank, minus corals; right? An established YT can be very nasty to newcomers; usually its just "pecking order" stuff, but can turn nasty. I assume (hope) you are going to QT all new fish. If the YT gives newcomers more than looks safe, toss him in the QT for several days, sort of a 'time out"; almost always works. Most of the time, tangs of different genera will work things out and a PBT is no wuss; but I'd expect a squabble or two. Introducing another larger fish, with the PB, as the last fish in the tank may help. The PB will probably become the alpha fish in time, depending on his size. I think you're right; the CBB should be a 1st fish and given time to acclimate. The mature LR will help, they really need it and will constantly be pecking at it. Not only are juvi Emperors easier to adapt (their feeding habits haven't become so imprinted, so they will accept aquarium foods much easier); they're cheaper and raising a large Angel from juvi to adult gives a real sense of accomplishment. (At least to me.) There are a lot of hobbyists who would say "no" to multiple dwarf angels. IME & IMO; 2 or 3 would work; again expect some initial squabbles, but that shouldn't last long. Dwarf Angels need plenty of mature LR to thrive too.
 
You're correct...the fish I have now will remain (with the possible exception of the Tomato Clown being traded for an Ocellaris) and I'm keeping all of the live rock. That being said though, I will take the opportunity to make some changes to the aquascaping. But in the end, I plan to keep things more or less as they are now and I'm not eliminating any of the rock so the tank will remain populated with a significant volume of seasoned live rock, providing lots of places for fishes large and small to graze, hide, etc. I'll have to think about the balance of things with the Dwarf Angels as well...reduce the quantities in order to maintain the peace.

And yes, I do plan to QT newcomers. And perhaps I'll move the Yellow Tang out until the more peaceful newbies are established...hopefully avoid problems.
 
I forgot that clown, but you seem to know anyway. Single, mature clowns are almost always females and a big clown is as territorial (as opposed to aggressive) as any fish that swims.
 
Indeed...I can't put anything near its home base...not corals, not rocks, nothing. This may be my opportunity to part ways with the Tomato.
 
do you have a picture of your aqua scaping? I think in a size of tank that you have if you purchased all 1-1.5" dwarfs that you could maintaine peace depending on your aqua scaping, a lof of places to weave in and out and a lot of live rock for them to graze on and they wont scuable to much. I had no issues with 4 different speacies in a 55g for a year or so. I eventually broke the group up when they started nipping at corals, but they did well. It was a rusty,flame,coral and a bicolor. The bicolor was the hardest to get eating.
 
As for the large Angel, would I be better off if I went with my 2nd choice, the Blue Girdled Angel? It doesn't grow quite as large as the Emperor and has a reputation as being relatively "easy" for the large angels. Thoughts?

PatrickB101, I will post a pic of the current aquascaping in the next few nights. As I said above I plan to make a few changes in the upper areas but nothing major, and the tank currently has loads of good hiding places.
 
FishDad2 said:
As for the large Angel, would I be better off if I went with my 2nd choice, the Blue Girdled Angel? It doesn't grow quite as large as the Emperor and has a reputation as being relatively "easy" for the large angels. Thoughts?
.
Click to expand...

A beautiful, very under-rated fish; IMO. It always seems to take a back seat to Emperors. I had one for at least 8 years before moving, got along with everything and ate anything. He was, and I think most are, more shy than other fish in the same genus.
 
Interesting that you say that because I had the Blue Girdled as my top choice until I saw an Emperor at local supermarket recently...yes, a supermarket. The owner of the store is friends with an LFS owner so they have a huge showcase tank setup in the store. They have an Emperor and a Queen Angel in there along with a Harlequin Tusk and a bunch of other nice fish.

Anyway, when I saw the Emperor I immediately moved it to the top spot on my list. Perhaps I should return to my original ranking and go with the Blue Girdled.

With 225 gallons, lots of hiding places and mature live rock it should be fine in terms of environmental factors. As well, given my intent to get a Copperband Butterfly, which itself is shy and therein fairly easily intimidated, perhaps its the wiser choice all around to go with the Blue Girdled over the Emperor as my lone large Angel.
 
PatrickB101, this is an old pic from 2005 but it gives a pretty good idea of the aquascaping. The big rocks at the top of the left side have been moved, the right side is a little more built up and there are more flat area for setting corals but this is pretty close to how things are now.

picture.php
 
Naturally as soon as I posted that pic I found one a bit more close up.

Many of the corals have grown significantly, some died and new ones were added since this pic was taken but it's much closer to how things are now in terms of aquascaping.

picture.php
 
Great looking tank! Naso's get way to big but you may be able to get the powder blue. If you want the emp I would consider a peninsula style aqua scape with caves in the middle. That would give the fish a little bit more room to turn and allows the fish to swim on both sides of the peninsula. It is not necessary but IMO it is the best aquascape for keeping large fish.
 
very nice tank. sometimes i think too much rock can be a hindrance. i'm assuming your 225g is 72x24x30(tall), and with that much rock, it would be hard for a big fish like an emperor to move front to back, only having the front of the tank for swimming room.

i think you can pull off having both the emperor and the majestic angelfish, but i would consider not having the foxface..

in my 180g, so far i have a powder brown, 4" adult blueface, and 3.5" emperor juvie. those are the 1st 3 fish and all were put in a 2 week span. however, my rockwork is very light though. the emperor and bf was together in a 40g QT for about 6weeks.
 
FishDad2 said:
I'm in the process of converting my 225 gallon reef tank to a fish-only tank. As I've been a reef guy for many years now and not focused on the fish I feel like I could use some advice / a sanity check on my desired fish list and quantities. Just want to be sure I'm not headed for any problems.

As I said, it's a 225 gallon tank and I will retain the live rock reef structure. I'll also keep the protein skimmer, RODI and other filtration elements in place for the reef as I see no reason not to continue maintaining high water quality. Essentially, I'll be removing the corals, halide lamps and I'll stop dosing calcium, etc....everything else will remain the same.

That being said, below is the fish list I'm considering, listed with quantities desired and in order of preference. So for example, with the large angles I intend to get just 1 of the fish listed, with an Emperor being my top choice. Please let me know if you see any issues.

Angelfish, Dwarf (qty. 3-5)
Flame Angelfish
Bicolor Angelfish
Singapore Angelfish
Coral Beauty Angelfish
Lemonpeel Angelfish
Flameback Angelfish

Angelfish, Large (qty. 1)
Emperor Angelfish (adult)
Blue Girdled Angelfish (adult)
Queen Angelfish (adult)

Butterflyfish (qty. 3-5)
Copperband Butterflyfish
Falcula Butterflyfish
Saddleback Butterflyfish
Raccoon Butterflyfish
Latticed Butterflyfish
Auriga Butterflyfish

Tangs (qty. 1-2)
Yellow Tang (own)
Powder Blue Tang
Blonde Naso Tang

Anthias (qty. 2-5)
Lyretail Anthias (female - 2 or 3) (own 1)
Lyretail Anthias (male - 1) (own)
Fathead Sunburst Anthias (1)

Wrasses (qty. 1-4)
Harlequin Tusk
Six-Line Wrasse (own)
Carpenter's Flasher Wrasse
Red Velvet Fairy Wrasse

Bassletts(qty. 1)
Royal Gramma (own)

Cardinalfish(qyt. 1)
Banggai Cardinalfish (own)

Clownfish(1)
Ocellaris Clownfish
Tomato Clownfish (own but may trade-in)

Foxface(qty. 1)
Foxface Lo

Gobies (qty. 1-2)
Citrinis Clown Goby
Green Clown Goby

Note that I intend to add the peaceful fish first and allow them time to get nice and comfortable in the tank before adding the more aggressive species. That said, I don't think anything on the list is particularly aggressive but certainly some fall into that "semi-aggressive" classification.

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks,
Chris
Click to expand...

I short, while the species mix is generally compatible, that will be too many fish, IMO.

Dwarf Angels - small as they are, they can be spiteful little creatures. I would suggest getting a pair of cherubs / flame backs / similar instead.

Large Angels - some would say an emporer would outgrow your tank. This may be so, but it will take several years and you can make the call then.

Butterflyfish - I'd be inclined to either reduce the number or else sacrifice other medium bodied fish. The racoon gets quite big, and is (for a b'fly) potentially aggressive - suggest striking him off the list.

Tangs - the yellow tang is a great fish, and hard to imagine a tank without one :) Naso - too big. Powder Blue.... sometimes they are realtively hardy and not too aggressive..... sometimes very delicate and super-aggressive. Suggest letting it to be the last fish added..... and maybe omit altogeher (because if he gets aggressive, it will be with the b'flies - who wouldn't stand a chance).

Anthias / Wrasse / Basslets / Cardinals
With the exception of the harlequin tusk, they are all ok - with the acception that I think you will have too many.
While I would personally prefer the tusk and ditch the rest, the main drawback is that with a tush you can't have a cleanup crew..... which I prefer to have, particualrly snails.

Clownfish
I always think they look "displaced" in a non-reef setting. But no issue as such. Tomatoes may fight with dwarf angels.

Foxface
A big fish, which is quite messy..... but a great algae eater. Very timid however, I had a 6-8" one that got bullied by a 2" flame angel!

Gobies
No problem.

Generally, I see no major compatability issues with your short list, I would just suggest reducing the numbers by 30-50%.

HTH
 
i tend to agree with Matt in regards to the blonde naso. they get big fast.

the pbt - as much as i like them too, but even with QT they're too much of an ich magnet.
 
I agree with geaux xman...there is a lot of rock and coral in there...may want to remove some so the larger fish will have more swimming room...beautiful tank...
 
Given the feedback I've received here and in my discussions with local hobbyists, here's where I am now.

Large Angel (0 or 1) - If I do get a large angel it's likely to be a Blue Girdled Angel as this one is a bit smaller and less aggressive than the others. However, regardless of which species I select, it's clear that if the fish grows to full size or near full size my tank will likely be too small to accommodate it properly. As has been pointed out, if/when that does happen I could always restructure the aquascaping and remove some other fish to accommodate it better or remove the large angel itself but I'm not excited about either prospect. Most likely is that I will pass on getting a large angel.

Dwarf Angel (2 or 3) - I should be able to fit 2 in a tank this size and with this much rock...perhaps 3. Beyond that though I'm moving into the high risk territory, so 2 or 3 is the likely number.
Flame Angelfish
Coral Beauty Angelfish
Flameback Angelfish

Butterflyfish (3 or 4) - With the large Angel likely removed form the picture, this opens the door for 3 or 4 Butterflies to peacefully coexist. As you'll see below, I've changed the list a bit and gone with ones known to be generally more peaceful.
Copperband Butterflyfish
Latticed Butterflyfish
Auriga Butterflyfish
Heniochus Butterflyfish

Tangs (1) - I'd forgotten what a pain the Powder Blues can be, particularly given that I have a Yellow already in there. So, I think I'll limit myself to just the Yellow. If/when it meets its end I may go with a PB to replace it...but hopefully that's not for may years.
Yellow Tang

Anthias (2) - I already have female and male (actually, a female that's morphing...pretty cool) and perhaps I'll just stick with these and not pump the fish count up unnecessarily. So, 2 Anthias...the ones I already own.
Lyretail Anthias (female)
Lyretail Anthias (male)

Wrasses (3) - The Tusk is off the list for all the reasons given in the thread. I have a Six-Line and may add the others for a total of 3. None are large and the Six-Line I have is the most aggressive of the bunch...and not particularly problematic.
Six-Line Wrasse
Carpenter's Flasher Wrasse
Red Velvet Fairy Wrasse

Royal Gramma & Banggai Cardinalfish (1 each) - Since I already own these, they're small, non-aggressive and it would break my daughter's heart if I got rid of them, they stay...1 of each.

Clownfish (1) - I've decided that this is my opportunity to replace the Tomato with an Ocellaris so I'm taking that opportunity.

Foxface (0) - Was never a priority for me so I've decided to eliminate.

Gobies (0 to 2) - Also not a priority but they're small, non-problematic and hardly even count against the bioload. They're on the list for now but I may or may not pull the trigger.
Citrinis Clown Goby
Green Clown Goby
 
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