Fish still flashing after TTM

It does not treat ich!

There are only a few options with ich:

Copper
CP
Hypo(not the greatest IMO)
TTM(also do not like because a tomont can live in fish gills)

As seachems website states, it treats everything. It's funny that it doesn't state that it treats brook and uronema. I will consider metro to fall in with all the reef safe remedies to treat ich. It states that it is excellent for treating parasites for tanks with inverts. If that was the case Jdub, metro would be the first reef safe cure all. It simply does not treat ich nor velvet!
 
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Fish still flashing after TTM

Metroplex has not been proven to treat ich (at least not by anyone I trust personally) It does have some anti-parasitic properties, but there are no current accounts of anyone actually "curing" their fish of crypto using metroplex alone. It may help as an "ich management" tool, in providing temporary relief until a fishes immune system can take over.

Copper or CP are the only tested and true medication options if your goal is eradication vs. management.


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I can say that I've gotten crypto while feeding all of my fish metroplex for intestinal worms so in my own experience it's great for worms...not so much for ich.


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It does not treat ich!

There are only a few options with ich:

Copper
CP
Hypo(not the greatest IMO)
TTM(also do not like because a tomont can live in fish gills)

As seachems website states, it treats everything. It's funny that it doesn't state that it treats brook and uronema. I will consider metro to fall in with all the reef safe remedies to treat ich. It states that it is excellent for treating parasites for tanks with inverts. If that was the case Jdub, metro would be the first reef safe cure all. It simply does not treat ich nor velvet!
Hmmm very valid point for reef safe treatment I stand corrected on ick however my reason for suggesting general cure is more on the lines of 1- he has obtained an praziquantel from a vet ( it sounds like ) and we don't know what the concentration or the dose he's using. Wrasses are on the sensetive side for meds so general cure is a powder form less mgs yet still thereputic and with the addition of metronidazole if his ttm was done correctly then we could be dealing with brooklynella or velvet or flukes general cure will cover two of the three listed. It's very possible the wrasse is being exposed to a higher than thereputic dose of proziquental also. Keep in mind unless your getting a rx from a fish specialist your getting a general dosing instructions.
The statement I made on metroplex was general I didn't mean to imply his fish still have ick but his procedure for ttm needs to be stated and water perimeters need to be stated also because we are assuming the tank is 0ammonia because he mentioned ttm
 
I agree with your recommendation, I just didn't want people to read this and assume you could treat ich with metro.

I don't know what options the OP has, he is in the U.K., which is why he had the Rx based prazi. I have used general cure before on an overly sensitive flame wrasse and agree that it works well in some situations.

As of now, I would still wait to see what the second dose of prazi does. I don't see it as a reaction because the initial dose seemed to help a lot. I believe this to be the second batch of eggs that have now hatched.
 
Thanks folks for the discussion and ideas. I was trying Paraguard as a general cure but it wasn't helping after TTM I still had a little flashing. I agree there is a risk I could have a tomont come through TTM in a gill however the fish are QTing for another 8 weeks so I will see if ick returns. I did have a couple of fish that were badly infected with loads of white spots (the wrasse was one of them) and they came out of TTM looking clean and eating well so I assumed the ick was cured (although can't be 100% at this point). Maybe it has just been knocked back but still lingered in a gill or two. I will see if that's the case. I think I need to complete the fluke treatment now. I am just not keen on another general cure because I see no symptoms on any of the fish of any disease or parasite only occasional flash from the gramma and wrasse with the likley cause being untreated fulkes or worms.
My TTM was done following closely the directions given on this site - 2 sets of everything, no cross contamination, 4 transfers with 72 hour hold in between for 13 days. Worst affected fish was my blenny and he has no spots and no flashing anymore.
The prazi that I have is Dicus Fluke Solve because that is the only way I can get prazi based meds in the UK. Here are the details:
***
Fluke-Solve for killing tapeworm & flukes
Ornamental fish such as discus can harbour a variety of parasites, and often they remain undiscovered until they have been introduced into a new aquarium. This can be a particular problem with fish which have originated from the wild.

Flukes belong to the group of parasites known as Monogean trematodes. The commonest affecting pet fish are the Dactylogyrus species and Gyrodactylus species.

These parasites, called cestodes or tapeworms, are internal parasites which affect a wide variety of fish species including carp as well as aquarium fish such as discus.


For aquarium tanks, again it may be tricky to have a complete clean out of the system, so annual treatment with Fluke-Solve Aquarium will ensure that the fish remain free of these parasites

Stress can also be a major threat to these fish because of the complete change in their habitat and lifestyle, and so any parasite treatment must be efficient and safe - frequent treatments will not only stress these fish further, but can also pose a risk of the very parasites you are trying to treat developing resistance to some treatments.
Fluke-Solve™ is a specially designed fluke treatment for Discus and other aquarium fish. It contains 50% pure praziquantel in a unique solublising presentation.

Comes in a handy 10 grams sachet to treat 2500 litres (550 gallons)
Easy to use - dissolves quickly without boiling or solvents
Effective - one dose kills adult flukes and larvae
Simple double dosing regime takes care of fluke eggs as well
Filter-safe
Measuring scoop for small tanks

These products are all licensed veterinary medicines under the SAES Scheme.
***

I rang Vetark to ensure this was ok for Marine and they said it was. I have been advised by other UK reef folk that this is good for marine (not inverts) as well.

I am going to do a second dose tomorrow after a water change and see where I am then. I don't think another general cure will improve my decision making at this point. It does mention a second dose required for hatched eggs and the fact my wrasse "calmed" down for a while before starting to flash again has me fairly convinced some eggs were left and hatched after the first treatment.

Good point about ammonia level in my water. To be honest I haven't checked it and will do but wouldn't I be seeing all 7 fish showing signs if that was a problem?
 
+1 on your treatment I would dose the second time as you mentioned. Some fish are more sensetive wrasses being one of them so it's more common to see them react to lower levels of ammonia or a medication. If the wrasse continues to flash after treatment I would do a WC and observe see if the praziquantel is causing the irritation, like wise the paraguard might have irritated him also
 
If there was an ammonia spike, not all fish will necessarily show signs of ammonia burns. Also the gills are usually pretty red if that was the case.
 
I've used that same Prazi medication a few times now and haven't had any problems.

It would not surprise me if the Paraguard had irritated the gills of the fish. I used it on some chromis the other week and it made them act 'stunned'; flashing on things and darting around as if the lights in the room had just been switched on. They lost their appetite for a few days after treatment also.
 
Ok so I did the second prazi treatment yesterday evening. I watched the fish more closely for a longer period after treating this time. It seems like the prazi is causing a bit of irritation because after about 30 mins or so a few of the fish, especially the wrasse I have been mentioning, were swimming in sharp motions and flashing once or twice. All are still feeding well which is a good sign. I will leave the prazi in the tank until the weekend then do a water change and put in some carbon to remove it. Then I am not going to do anything else only observe the fish for at least a week. By that time any irritation should be gone and with the second treatment the flukes and worms should be gone too. I expect zero flashing or sharp swimming at the end of the week. Does this sound reasonable?
 
Following second prazi treatment and a few days now to have a water change done and settled unfortunately I am still seeing some flashing. I have seen the gramma flash twice in about 4 hours of observing and the firefish flashed once in the same timeframe. Still no signs of ich returning thankfully. Is this normal? What next? Advice appreciated.
 
Some flukes are resistant to prazi and require a third dose. I think I mentioned this to you in a prior post. How long has it been since your last dose?
 
I would continue treatment for 5-7 days it's possible a third dose might be needed. Are you only seeing flashing, respiration is normal? Prazi don't kill flukes it causes them to spasm and fall of the fish then they die cus no host. But these flukes cause small wounds to the fish and as they spasm it can cause irritation also as the wounds heal they itch just like a wound on us. Generally they will scratch on stuff but flashing can also occur. Have you tested the water for ammonia yet? Nitrite unless it's over 2ppm I wouldn't worry to much and nitrate would also have to be high to cause irritation
 
Have you done a fw dip? That would confirm whether or not flukes are still the issue.

As mentioned above, sometimes when fish are healing they will continue to flash because they are simply itchy from all the bites. Think fleas on a dog.

If you do a freshwater dip and find flukes, you may have to switch gears and try formalin baths or hypo-salinity. If you don't find flukes and the flashing persists...you might actually be dealing with something else or the ich is not actually gone :/


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No formalin in uk at all? Kordon's Rid ick contained formalin, or fomalin ms and paraguard contains aldehyde not formaldehyde but I believe gluderaldahyd. Which he has tried already
 
Ammonia and Nitrite are both 0. It's been 8 days since last prazi treatment. All fish are eating and behaving ok except for the flashing/scratching/flicking off things. Still no signs of any white spots thankfully. The 7 fish are a bit cramped so I expect they are all a bit stressed. My discus fluke solve is prazi based and says 50% prazi on it. If I start a second course treating every 6 days at double dosage do you think that would be good?
 
Do not double dose prazi if your product reccomends a double dose it is probably for a bath for 30 minutes or so that is the only way you can safely double dose. I can't remember all your details in your post however treat with prazi 5-7 days do a WC then re dose 5-7 days you can do a 3 dose of you think it's needed. Fish can continue to scratch after flukes because the sores left behind are healing you could try a Acriflavine bath to help with healing it can be found in Acriflavine ms or ruby reef rally to name a few
 
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