flame angel dying - please help

R

rica5tully

New member
I bought an expensive and beautiful flame angel. He was fat and happy and looked terrific for about two weeks in my QT. He ate everything I put in there.

Now he's dying....do you have any idea of what could have gone wrong?

1) Brown diatoms appeared in the tank.

2) I noticed he was looking thin and thought I should keep an eye on him.

3) He quit eating and started hiding in the PVC pipe.

4) He started swimming only at the bottom and went in circles only.

5) Now he is bumping into things, laying on the bottom for periods of time and looks terrible. He's skinny, his fins are a little frayed, still not eating.

These are my only guesses at what could be wrong:

a) cyanide poisoning - and took a few weeks to show up

b) nitrite poisoning - but it's weird that it happened when the diatoms showed up, since usually that means that the tank has completed the cycle

c) parasites - but I have copper in the QT at a good dosage


Any other ideas? He was really expensive and it's frustrating that I don't even know what's wrong. Thanks!
 
Hey RIca, The reason that many of these angels die within the first 3-5 months is the fact that any copper in the water will slowly eat away at their insides....Remove him from quarntine and place him in a copper free enviroment...Not to sure whwat will happen but its your only chance...

Cheers
 
Flames are VERY sensitive to elevated copper esp. if its done instantly, you need to GRADUALLY build up the amount, I'd say thats probably a major suspect. I'd honestly rule out cyanide but I suppose it is still a small possibility. Nitrite poisoning would entail him gasping at the surface for air
 
Thanks everyone.

Boy, I feel dumb, but at least I know that it was my fault. It was really frustrating to watch him dying and not know what was going on.

I guess I'll chalk that up to an expensive learning experience.
 
Yup, research is the key dude, just make sure you know whats in for you before you buy the fish, makes it far less expensive...Sorry for the loss dude.
 
If I want to buy another flame angel, where should I go? Aquatics Unlimited has them for about $80 and that's too much. Where do you guys go to buy fish?
 
Im half way across the world from you so i wouldnt make a difference...Pls Dude make sure the copper PPm is 0! before buying another flame
 
a.) I wouldn't be so quick to rule out cyanide poisoning, it's very common with many Centropyge sp. and it's still best to avoid any know to be caught from the Philippines and maybe even Indonesia. If you got a "good price" on your Flame odds are it is from one of those places and I suggest spending a little more for a Flame from elsewhere if you ever get another one. Cyanide can have long lasting effects and kill a fish weeks after collection.

b.) Nitrite isn't very toxic to marine fish, at least not at levels we'll ever see in an aquarium... Ammonia on the other hand is another story.

c.) The copper could have been a problem, but I doubt it with the symptoms you describe. Some angels can be sensitive to copper, but when they are it's not the symptoms you describe.
 
What are the usual symptoms for copper poisoning?

Once people began to suggest that, I remembered that I had initially had my copper tested and it was at a lower level (approx .3?). When I got home, I put in quite a bit more to raise it to a higher level because I've had really good results with copper in the past. It was probably around that time that things started going south. I just had no idea that copper and dwarf angels don't mix.

I thought of cyanide right away, but I paid $80 for the fish at Aquatics Unlimited and they usually have great specimens there. I read somewhere on the internet that dwarf angels can't handle more than .15 copper and especially not when a lot is added at once.
 
Sorry!

I know how you feel, my flame got ich a couple weeks ago, and I freaked! He is doing better now.

best of luck to you
 
check your ammonia levels. sounds like your QT tank started to cycle. more regular water changes ( sometimes daily) can be required in QT situations. if he is still alive transfer to non copper enviroment and make sure to check your parameters daily and do water changes accordingly.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13103623#post13103623 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rica5tully
What are the usual symptoms for copper poisoning?

Once people began to suggest that, I remembered that I had initially had my copper tested and it was at a lower level (approx .3?). When I got home, I put in quite a bit more to raise it to a higher level because I've had really good results with copper in the past. It was probably around that time that things started going south. I just had no idea that copper and dwarf angels don't mix.

I thought of cyanide right away, but I paid $80 for the fish at Aquatics Unlimited and they usually have great specimens there. I read somewhere on the internet that dwarf angels can't handle more than .15 copper and especially not when a lot is added at once.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's a healthy dose of copper and I change my stance that it very well could be copper causing the problems. Heavier slime coating, rapid gill movement, are some things seen in fish that react poorly to copper. It has been many years since I've had to use copper and I don't like to use it as a preventative measure, only if I have to. I've also always tried to maintain between .15 and .20 when I did use it. I'd either get the fish in your display or start running a lot of carbon or polyfilters.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13103587#post13103587 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Peter Eichler
a.) I wouldn't be so quick to rule out cyanide poisoning, it's very common with many Centropyge sp. and it's still best to avoid any know to be caught from the Philippines and maybe even Indonesia. If you got a "good price" on your Flame odds are it is from one of those places and I suggest spending a little more for a Flame from elsewhere if you ever get another one. Cyanide can have long lasting effects and kill a fish weeks after collection.

b.) Nitrite isn't very toxic to marine fish, at least not at levels we'll ever see in an aquarium... Ammonia on the other hand is another story.

c.) The copper could have been a problem, but I doubt it with the symptoms you describe. Some angels can be sensitive to copper, but when they are it's not the symptoms you describe.
Click to expand...
Hey Pete, I get my fish from a MAC certified wholesaler by the way, I can guarantee there is no cyanide!!!
 
The syntoms said above are typical of Copper, i have had bad experiances with copper so i prefer not to use copper...
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13105988#post13105988 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JRechcygl
Hey Pete, I get my fish from a MAC certified wholesaler by the way, I can guarantee there is no cyanide!!!
Click to expand...

With all due respect, no you can't. MAC in my (and many other) eyes is little more than a scam with a lot of promises and good ideas and little to show for it. There's a good reason why there are only a handful of importers/distributors and retailers that are MAC certified. There is so much corruption within the industry in the Philippines, the industry in general, and the MAC that I won't even begin to go into detail. However, if you're curious as to what I'm speaking of there is a lot of information out there for you to read and form your own opinions.
 
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