FlameAngel group.

Sorry if this has already been clarified or confirmed, but does the "male with thicker black lines, more blue and 'pointed' fins" rule still hold true? Do they start off as males or females? And finally, do they ever change back?

I apologize if I am repeating things here.

Thanks,
Raymond:)
 
I think on page 2 or three it is said. But yea, the pointed fins with more blue will be the male, and the more rounded light colored fish will be the female. The all start as female, and no one is sure if they can change back.
 
Info from the book Nachzuchten für das Korallenriff-Aquarium.
Chapter: Herzogfishe der Gattung Centrophyge, Frank Baensch.
I translated the info from german to english.
My german is bad and my english even worse. Not a good combination.
I hope me spelling isn´t to bad :)

-----------
Info on the social structure and territorium of a centrophyge-harem.
Centrophyge are born as females and can change sex to male.
Harems are normaly run by a large dominant male, one to four sexually active females and up to nine unmature females.

The size of the territorium in the nature is between 2x3 to 4x6 meter.
Centrophyge harems have a size based hierarkik structure. The male is always the largest individual an displays his dominans thrue jerky swimming and circling. All females in the harem spawns only with the domiant male, the order of spawning is based on the size and rank of the female. Agressions between yhe females are rare, but sometimes the smaler females try to disturb the larger females during spawning.

The dominant male patroles the territory regularly and defends it, the male chases not only eggeating fishes away but also “bachelors”.

The sexchange is controled by the social structure, the sexchange from female to male is “prevented” by the existance of a dominant male. In the case a dominant male doesn´t exist, the highest ranking female will normaly make the sexchange. In seven days she will start the transition and in twenty days she will be a fully funktionable male.


Two or more centrophyge will only coexist if they match socially. Dominant males will probably kill subordinate males or females that are in the status of a sexchange. Two females of the same size and strength may also under the restrained conditions of an aquarium to death fight over a higher social rank. To form a harmoning Centrophyge pair, you should buy a large male or female and a small female. A trio with a much smaller female will peacfully interact.

If a larger harem is put in a aquarium smaller then 350 liter ( 91 gallon), fighting may become a problem.

The best way is to put the fishews together in a 100 liter tank at your LFS and observe if they can coexist in harmony. Individuals that atacks each other vigorusly will probably never form a pair.

------------------------

So this is what the Centrophyge expert Frank Baensch thinks on the topic of pairing and the social structure of dwarfangels...



I don´t know if i just were lucky when I formed my flame angel harem.


Or if the dominant male do accept smaller males in his harem.
Or maybe the ones that I think are males actually are females.

Or if the small males do have the ability to change sex back to female, contrary to what the litterature says...

So many questions, so little knowledge.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9112496#post9112496 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chillaxe123
do you think three potters angels can coexist in a 55 gallon?

would i need to get a large one and two smaller ones?
Click to expand...

Sorry but I can not help you. I have no experience with Centrophyge Potteri. I recomend that you search the webb and read everything you can find about them. There is a lot of info out there.



My personal opinion is that no fish should live in a tank smaller then 100 gallon.




Here is some info on PottersAngel from Wetwebmedia.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/pottersangel.htm

Swimming room should include a good four to six feet

This species needs room (at least a hundred gallons), with lots of spaces, crevices to dart through and out of the way, and a paucity of too-active fishes kept with it.
 
Update!

They have now started spawning.
No more training, its the real deal.

I have seen the white cloud from the eggs and sperm.
 
OH SWEET!!! Do you have any plans to raise the fry?? I tried a pair of flames a few days ago, but they arived DOA sooooo ill just have to try again...
 
What's the latest???
Any new news?
Anyone ever gotten lucky pairing w/ just 2 angels? I had one i thought was female in my tank and added a new one that is definately male. Was not a good intro...the original one went to harassing the new one. Was able to remove the original one and leave the new one in the tank. Should I try to put the original one back in? If so, when?

Thanks
 
OH SWEET!!! Do you have any plans to raise the fry?? I tried a pair of flames a few days ago, but they arived DOA sooooo ill just have to try again...
Click to expand...

That sux, better luck next time.

No plans trying to raise the fry yet. I have read everything I could find about raising dwarfs and I know that it is hard/impossible.

I´m still in the learning process of raising clownfishes A.Nigripes, (Black-footed Clownfish).
At the moment I do not have the time or the money to try to raise the flame angels.


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9495692#post9495692 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Angel*Fish
That's wonderful! Good for you! (and your fish ;) )

How many are spawning & with who?
Click to expand...

The dominant male is spawning with two or possibly three females.

Anyone ever gotten lucky pairing w/ just 2 angels? I had one i thought was female in my tank and added a new one that is definately male. Was not a good intro...the original one went to harassing the new one. Was able to remove the original one and leave the new one in the tank. Should I try to put the original one back in? If so, when?
All single dwarf angels are males. Bying another male was not good.
I do not think you should put them back together in the same tank.


Do the flames nip at your corals bad?
Click to expand...
Until now they did not nip at any of my corals. But now they have started to nip on my Caulastrea furcata (candy coral). But that is only because I have been at work a lot lately and have not fed them as often as I used to.







I would like to get a hold of the following articles that Frank Beansch wrote for FAMA. If anyone has them on computer please send me a messege.

Baensch, Frank. 2002. The culture and larval development of three pygmy angelfish species: Centropyge fisheri, Centropyge loriculus and Centropyge flavissimus. FAMA 12/02.

Baensch, Frank. 2003. Marine copepods and the culture of two new pygmy angelfish species. FAMA 7/03.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for the update!!! Sounds like you have alot of fun commin up, lol. Black foot clowns should keep you busy!! Ive had better luck with my next pair of flames. They seem to be pairing up nicely!! I have the 2 flames, a coral beauty, and a majestic all in the same tank with NO fighting. It is so beautiful to see all those angels getting along!! Good luck with your flames in the future,

Michael
 
Jaken,

Thanks so much for sharing, and well done all round - the set up looks fantastic and the hareem is spectacular. You have inspired me! I am now considering a hareem of dwarf angels for my 8x2x2 tank (not sure what species yet).

Have you had any problems at all with aggression?

Scoputmaniak - I see you have a pair of flames - well done to you too..... any pics of the pair?

cheers,

Matt
 
Thanks for the positive feedback.


Mattsilvester.
There has been no problems with agressions so far.

Now I have had them for 4 months and I dont think there ever will be a agression problem as long as the dominant male is alive. If/when he dies the others might start fightinging for leadership.
 
I got real lucky and had a friend pick me up a small Flame at the wholesaler. It is the size of a medium clown fish. Put it in to my tank and my 2 Flames have been cohabitating for over a week now. They're not "buddies" and don't hang out together, but they also don't show any agression to each other at all. The bigger one is definately a male with the sharp back blue fins and heavy markings. This is my second try at this....hopes it continues to work out. The first time I tried this was with a larger Flame w/ the physical characteristics of a female Flame. It was pure disaster....I had to pull it out within 30 minutes. Time will tell. I've heard of "mated pairs" of Hawaiian Flames going for $200/pair.
 
BBCoach good luck with your Flames


I have never seen a mater pair for sale here in Sweden. The price for one Flame Angel from X-mas island is 100-120 $ here om Sweden.


If a mated pair would cost 200$/pair here in Sweden, I would consider it as cheap.
 
awesome thread.. whats the word on these fish being sps safe? would love to try it in my tank but am concerned about my sps
 
Thanks Jaken!! The mated pairs are actually being net caught in Hawaii and shipped to California.

My Flames leave my SPS frags alone...but the bigger one tore up my Scolomia. It also was nipping on my Brain. The original Flame I had that I was trying to pair up was an AWESOME citizen....left all corals alone. A buddy of mine also has a Flame in his reef with tons of super nice SPS and it leaves his corals alone.
 
Thanks Jaken!! The mated pairs are actually being net caught in Hawaii and shipped to California.

My Flames leave my SPS frags alone...but the bigger one tore up my Scolomia. It also was nipping on my Brain. The original Flame I had that I was trying to pair up was an AWESOME citizen....left all corals alone. A buddy of mine also has a Flame in his reef with tons of super nice SPS and it leaves his corals alone.
 
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