Flooding/stoppage issues. Help

[ganjero]

You get a pump that has less flow than the overflow can handle.....if you restric the overflows debris acummulating at the valves will slow down the flow and you would need to adjust it or at least flush it regularly, that is why you are having issues....the videos and articles you are seeing are probably implementing herbie or beananimal style whig have emergency drains

 

[Reefwithareefer]

So my tank ran for a month without any water level issues and now it may have debris clogging the overflow pipe/s, which is slowing down the flow rate coming into the sump.

So how can I add an emergency over flow or???? The tank came this way and the previous owner had it running for 6 years. I assumed the piping was good enough/correct.

I have a bulkhead at each end of tank, inside each bulkhead, there are two pipes. One is an over flow and the other is the return pipe.

 

[ganjero]

So my tank ran for a month without any water level issues and now it may have debris clogging the overflow pipe/s, which is slowing down the flow rate coming into the sump.

So how can I add an emergency over flow or???? The tank came this way and the previous owner had it running for 6 years. I assumed the piping was good enough/correct.

I have a bulkhead at each end of tank, inside each bulkhead, there are two pipes. One is an over flow and the other is the return pipe.

On a running tank is almost impossible, you need to drill at least an extra hole per overflow. Plus matching the pump flow with ball valves is very difficult, you need gate valves.

You don't need to match the flow, just open the overflow valves all the way. People using the styles mentioned to make.the tank completely silent, but without and emergency drain is a disaster waiting to happen

 

[Reefwithareefer]

even if I get a pump that pumps less, the overflow can still get debris in it and slow flow rate..
I do have the return pipe hooked up to the UV, the water runs thru the UV and directly back into the sump

I use UV ball valve to put more flow back to sump, which lessens the amount going up to the display or vice versa if needed. This way it does not restrict the return pump flow as much

 

[Reefwithareefer]

the gates valves are suppose to be herefrom BRS on Friday

 

[ganjero]

Again you want to restrict the pump not the overflows, you want way less flow going in the tank than the overflows can handle, this is for safety.

 

[Reefwithareefer]

Damn! All that research etc etc and I miss the one important thing...Well, I will install an Auto top off to pump water out of the display if it gets too high. Not the best solution, but better than nothing. I can set up the Apex to send an alarm telling me the ATO is on and that way I know there is an issue.

Thanks for your time, I appreciate it.

 

[Reefwithareefer]

Does not matter how much I restrict the return. If an overflow clogs, it will still flood. If I have somewhat less return than overflow and have the ato as a back up, it should all be good until I drill new holes in the tank foe the emergency overflow.

 

[ganjero]

Does not matter how much I restrict the return. If an overflow clogs, it will still flood. If I have somewhat less return than overflow and have the ato as a back up, it should all be good until I drill new holes in the tank foe the emergency overflow.

Very unlikely for a 1" pipe to clog but you are right it can happen. That said, opening the overflow valves will fix your current problems, and closing the return valve half way can give you piece of mind since one overflow would probably be able to handle it.

 

[Portsie]

You could use the 2 current drain lines as your main drains, use the current return pipes as emergency drains, and basically switch to a Herbie if you want to avoid drilling more holes. You then simply have to go over the back of the tank with your returns. The way you have it set up is asking for a disaster if you ask me. Even with a smaller return pump there is a chance of your drains clogging and not be able to keep up, its always nice to have a backup.

 

[james2662]

For a quick note on the GFI's they are designed to trip if the return current is not the same as the current flowing out. Even the slightest difference can trip them. A very small ground fault can be caused just by humidity. I deal with them quite often working on commercial refrigeration issues and they are a PITA to find sometimes. but with the pump randomly cutting out I would start with that there might be a winding or what not in it that is getting a little moisture in it that could cause both issues and not present in a shock to you.

EDIT:
with trying to find it usually you can check continuity between each prong and the ground and if there is any there is a fault. also if it is submerged it could ground through the water... and it could be small enough to not affect the livestock or you but trip a GFI.

 

[tkeracer619]

Number one rule in aquarium plumbing. The overflow intake is the smallest point in the drain. If you break that rule you will end up with a flood, unless you have backup drains that are completely dry under normal operation.

Do not under any circumstances reduce the size of the drain unless you have followed the BA drain setup exactly. You have been warned.

 

[Reefwithareefer]

OK, Got away from the desk, had a shower and grabbed a drink, then thought about what you were saying. It all makes sense and is logical.

I lost my way when closing/restricting the overflows.

The reason I started to restrict the the overflow drains, was that when they are fully open, the make quite a noise/gurgling in the sump. The display makes noise now too, but not as much as the sump. The walls are insulated etc in the 8' x 10' sump room and you can hear it clear as day on the other side of the walls.

I suppose I have to find a way to reduce this noise. Someone suggested drilling the hole bigger on the top of the overflow 180 degree fitting.
I thought more air would make it louder....

Anyone have a suggestion?

Thanks

 

[Reefwithareefer]

@Portsie

Would I have to use both return as new drains or could I get away with just one and adding just one other return?

 

[Reefwithareefer]

@James2662
I think I have it figured out. Or at least for why the GFI tripped today.

It seems that my CFs are tripping the GFI. When I turn them on they trip it. I thought it was the switch, so I took it out and connected the wires, but it still did it. Then I looked for a loose/bare wire and could not see any.

It sometimes takes up to a minute to trip the GFI and sometimes it is immediate.

I took each CF out, one at a time and seem to have narrowed it down to one bulb/ballast/wiring. It was the one I added a new CF to last week.

I thought maybe it was the ballast, so I swapped the ballast with the refugium ballast. it seemed to work, but then 5 minutes later it tripped the gfi. The ballast that I swapped works fine in the refugium light. No GFI tripped.

So I decided to swap out the new bulb with one that has been in there since I bought the tank etc 2 months ago. That worked for about an hour then it tripped the gfi..

None of that makes sense to me. I do not even know where to start with this issue anymore.

 

[Reefwithareefer]

@tkeracer
Can you elaborate on that. Do you mean that i should not reduce the pipe anywhere as it goes to the sump?? or???

 

[Reefwithareefer]

@James
This does not explain why the return pump outlet goes off and comes on though, but as Ganjero suggested, i will plug it into a regular outlet and see what happens. It may be an Apex issue

 

[ganjero]

@tkeracer
Can you elaborate on that. Do you mean that i should not reduce the pipe anywhere as it goes to the sump?? or???

Yes, closing a valve is reducing it.

Normal overflows tend to make those noises, that is why the came up with the beananimal and herbie styles which can be completely silent. You could reduce the noise but not eliminate it; drilling the holes as suggested should help.

You could get away with using one of the returns as the emergency drain, in the herbie style the are used to pick up that slightly difference on top of being the emergency drain in case of a clog. Also make sure to use gate valve and be aware that they are not set and forget, you should periodically flush it by opening the valve completely and then adjusting it again.

 

[Reefwithareefer]

Thanks Ganjero
The gates are coming on friday, so that will be another weekend project.
I will try and drill the holes bigger on the 180s to see if that helps

 

[james2662]

@James2662
I think I have it figured out. Or at least for why the GFI tripped today.

It seems that my CFs are tripping the GFI. When I turn them on they trip it. I thought it was the switch, so I took it out and connected the wires, but it still did it. Then I looked for a loose/bare wire and could not see any.

It sometimes takes up to a minute to trip the GFI and sometimes it is immediate.

I took each CF out, one at a time and seem to have narrowed it down to one bulb/ballast/wiring. It was the one I added a new CF to last week.

I thought maybe it was the ballast, so I swapped the ballast with the refugium ballast. it seemed to work, but then 5 minutes later it tripped the gfi. The ballast that I swapped works fine in the refugium light. No GFI tripped.



So I decided to swap out the new bulb with one that has been in there since I bought the tank etc 2 months ago. That worked for about an hour then it tripped the gfi..

None of that makes sense to me. I do not even know where to start with this issue anymore.

If you have a multi-meter or ohm meter see if there is continuity(ohms) between each of the plug prongs to the rounded ground plug(I think Canada uses the same standard outlet as US, just checked they do) if there is there is a fault somewhere. It is best to check with all bulbs in and then you can remove each at a time until it disappears. I had a compressor with an internal fault that was 12mega-ohms(which is very high resistance if your not familiar with ohms) but was tripping a 20amp GFI breaker but would not trip a regular breaker. hope that helps some they can be created as heat builds up as well and also a corroded wire that is inside the insulation that cant be seen. also it could be a bad outlet but if it didn't trip with the lights unplugged then that tells the tale.
also I have not had a chance to look at an Apex so it could be the issue but without experience cant really help on that aspect