Floor Joist is starting cracking under tank!

mnestroy

mnestroy

Active member
Well the issues continue... to recap the situation

My cat peed in the corner which lead me to my post about Ozone and Cat Urine smell... I have given up hope on saving the carpet.

So my next post was asking about Pergo Flooring and how it would handle the weight of the tank.

Over the past week I yanked the carpet and now am now in the progress of leveling the subfloor so i can lay pergo. Noticing the floor is very uneven near my tank I get into the crawl space to discover the only joist running the length of the tank has a major crack in it..

So, now i'm very frustrated I feel like one problem leads to another.

1. I definitely need to move the tank, this is my project for tomorrow...
2. I need to somehow jack up the floor joist and repair it..

I anyone have any ideas? I'd almost be more willing just to pay somebody to do this dirty work. I'm glad I discovered this problem now cause in a few months I had planed on replacing my 40breeder with a much larger tank 90-150gallon!

As you can see in the photo below, the I-Beem Joist has cracked the center wood, and is starting to sag down a tad, also the bottom portion is also splitting.. (the photo doesn't show all this)
FloorSupport3.jpg
 
This may be a bigger problem than just your tank settling in.

I would call a professional contractor to come and take a look. I have a bad feeling that there is something more going on here than just your tank weight. A 40 gal should not cause that kind of damage.

As far as the cat urine smell, that solution is easy. Go into the back yard, dig a hole and bury the damn thing in the hole!! Then go out and buy a dog.....or more fish!!! :rollface:
 
Contact the APA American Plywood Association. I think the office in Grayslake for the midwest, do a search, and show him that picture, they will give an idea on a fix. That should not have happened with a TJI joist these are engineered so that this type of thing doe not happen. Is that towards an exterior wall? How long is the span, bearing point to bearing point? Is there a beam? How old is the house? How far from the center of the joist is the sag? These are some of the questions they will ask. These type of joists have a span rating you might be able to read a stamp somewhere on the joist.

If the house is newer I would go after the builder. That is quite a gap and obvious sag. All I can think of without looking at it in person is that it is too small for the span. I don't remember off hand if there is a designated top and bottom, but it seems that if there is that could be the problem as well. I have not done new residential contruction in the last 5 years, I mostly inspect existing residential and commercial that is why I cannot remember.

Keep me posted on what happens I am interested.

Tom
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9451935#post9451935 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Oblivionis
A 40 gal tank caused this damage?
Click to expand...

What he said....There's some serious issues with your floor if a 40 gallon tank did that.
 
i have a friend who is a carpenter and also a liscence home inspector if you need a professional opinion.
 
The house was Built in 1985, by Pulte.

The Joist runs the span of just the one room, which is approx 15 feet wide. Dip is dead center between the two walls. (which is were the fish tank is, we only live here 2yrs) The particular joist covers just one room which has foundation on 3 sides.

The joist in the house run every 2 feet (is this code?) As you can see form the photo they are an "I" beam type joist... not sure what there official name is..

Hmm what else... the joist is the last joist closest to the foundation.

On a side note, not sure if it is related but there is a crawl space vent about 2 feet next to this... (could this have led to moisture, bugs, ice to effect the wood?)

Here are few more photos of the area,

Near the bottom u'll see 3 more links, those are additional photos of just the joist...

crawl3.jpg


crawl2.jpg


crawl1.jpg


http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k290/mnestroy/FloorSupport4.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k290/mnestroy/FloorSupport3.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k290/mnestroy/FloorSupport2.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k290/mnestroy/FloorSupport1.jpg
 
I agree with what is stated above. The 40 gal tank should not have caused that to happen. Even placing a large tank over that should have been okay. I would suspect there to be a problem with this floor joist to begin with.

I also agree you should probably get a professional carpenter to come out and give you your options to fix/repair it. I would also contact who built the house and have them come and inspect the damage, I would hope they would have some pride in their workmenship and want to make it right; although, most of the time you will be out of luck, but it would definitely be worth a try.

Now, for the "do it yourselfer": You could put a flat support on the ground under the joist, then get a floor jack or similar and put a board on top of the jack, then jack up that joist to its correct position. You could go about repairing it by placing a 2x12 or 2x10 cut to length on each side of the joist and bolted together; basically replacing that particular joist.

The thing I'd be concerned about is if that has happened to one, what about the others? I'd be crawling around all over in the crawl space looking at each one.

Man, this is an issue. I'm sorry this has happened, but probably better to find it this way, than later if it had given completely out.
 
The floor looks to be code, I would have to see it to be sure and what year code it was built to. Definitely contact the APA. They will tell you how to fix it. It may be something simple, but that should not be happening.
 
Okay, I think I need to have a pro at least give me a quote on this situation...

Can I get some referrals? (any that give a CMAS discount would be welcome, hehe)

smketyr: can you explain more what the APA does? I looked on their site but it doesn't look like the organization is geared towards the individual consumer?

Also would this damage be covered under my home owners warranty? I let it expire last June, (after my 1yr was up) I'm not sure if this would be considered a scam, but could I renew it now and claim the issue?

One last thing, contacting the builder? would this accomplish anything? I mean wouldn't that be like calling up Ford for a 15yr old car?
 
About contacting the builder; after looking back, I guess the house was built almost 22 years ago. Sorry, when I read that it seemed like it was just a couple of years ago (it was wasn't it? LOL) You're right, they may not care, but they may be able to let you know if anyone else has reported any similar instances. It still wouldn't hurt to give them a call and talk to someone about it. Most likely they won't off to help out, but might be able to give you some info....that is if they are still in business.
 
Screw Jack

Screw Jack

I am no expert, but it looks to me that there is not enough support between joists to support the weight of the room. In older homes, this is more common. Your home is not that old, but it doesn't surprise me.

What you may find is that you need to install one or two screw jacks to provide additional support. This you can do yourself or you can pay someone to do it.

http://doitbest.com/DoItBest/Main.aspx?PageID=64&SKU=106272

Best Regards,

Jim
 
I'd contact the engineered joist manufacturer. Their name should be stamped on the web of the joist. The Village should also have the engineering on the joists.

The flooring system might be designed for 2 feet on center but that joist has failed for some reason. Support the joist where the defect is until you resolve the problem.
 
By contacting the APA you can get information on the proper repair. I use to contact them all time for specs or approved repairs. I too checked the web site and they do not have the regional offices any more. You REALLY WANT to do this the TJI joists/ laminate wood I beam ( the name of the joist in your home) is an engineered wood product. If the joist was a dimensional 2x lumber stock, I would tell you to sister in a full lenght the same dimension lumber on both sides with a 1/2" spacer and not worry about it. IT IS POSSIBLE THAT IS A REALLY EASY AND INEXPENSIVE REPAIR. This being an engineered wood product the wrong repair could cause further failure or even the failure of the flooring system. Too often I have seen repairs made to engineered wood products (trusses, glue lam beams, etc.) that have caused more harm then good. The joist spacing is 24" oc becuase it is engineered that way, reduces the building cost and makes a stronger longer lasting building.

That being said, it can only cost you the price of telephone call. A home is a major investment and anything that needs to be done on it should be done with care. I can't begin to tell you what I have seen in repairs that have cause more bad than good.

Flapjack made a good point on contacting the Building Dept. there may be an outside chance that they have joist drawing with the manufacturer on it. Most Cities and Villages only keep the plans for 5-7 years.

Investigate it further, in my opinion the house is not falling down or it is going to fall down. The floors just be uneven until you can repair it.

HTH,

Tom
 
Thanks for all the help so far, in the meantime I spent 3.5hrs today relocating my tank to the opposite side of the house in a different room.

So that room is completely empty and ready for demo :)

After removing the tank I did notice extensive water damage to the sub floor. Apparently that time my sump overflowed and I thought a shop vac and tons of fans would do the job... did not :(

There was obvious mold in the wood subfloor.

Knowing this, do you think its possible/likely that enough water could cause the subfloor to weaken enough to apply to much pressure to the joist?
 
Hey Mike, not to be a bummer, but look at that first pic. It looks to me like that board has been repaired once before and the crack has re-opened.

It may have been something that was not told to you when you bought the home. Shady.
 
Bummer.

I never liked Pulte. I always thought they must cookie cut thier subdivisions. But...to thier credit, it is 25+ old house.

Things break down.

Your home inspector should have caught this.
 
Hey-

I would say the water damage/flooding directly caused the degradation to this beam. These engineered beams are made of plywood; water and plywood do not mix well at all. Your tank was a located at the worst possible location and it's extra weight caused the weakened wet beam to creep/yield a little. The gap you see in the middle section is not a crack but a butt joint where two pieces of plywood come together. The crack opened up because of the "stretching" / sagging of the beam. In your third picture I can see a couple other joints in the beams. What I see in the first picture does not overly concern me and wouldn't cause me to call for any emergency repairs.

I am concerned about comments you made about the bottom web (bottom board of the beam). I see some splinters in the board but I don't see any cracks. If this board is cracking or failing then you would have a problem that should be looked at and repaired rather quickly.

NATE
 
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