Flow?

[A. Grandis]

Roger on the note about too much blue..... There is a guy in orlando that grows and swaps high-end zoas very sucessfully whose tank i have seen many times. He grows his zoas, chalices and collector mushrooms under a DIY Bridgelux LED bar that is all royal blue with every 5th LED being green. This is all of the light that his zoas receive and they are spectacular!!! Amazing head size and they spread like wild fire.

His lighting is minimal. I do not know the total # of LED's but i believe its in the neighborhood of 30 over a 120 gal long tank. ALl the zoas are in about 12" of water on a rack. he feeds agressivly.

Acros brown out and stop growing in this tank, montis color up very nicely but grow slowly. Heavy feeding and large water changes montly (give or take)

I dont think too much blue (not enough white) is a problem with Zoas.... based solely on what i have seen in practice.

That's good info!
IME the best growth I've ever had out of my zoas was using 2 X 250W 6500K MH bulbs with NO actinics over a 55gal back in the days. I've never had zoas growing faster that and I've tried lots of different spectrum/bulb combination with T5s too for years. Colors were the best! They were strong and healthy. I didn't try LEDs yet, but IME the lower the K the best for growth. The spectrum needs a balance though. The blue plays it's part and it's very welcome.

There is a balance between nutrients and light for growth also.
In a system without heavy feeding, like normally set for the SPS, called many times "low nutrient system", the light will be the primary focus for growth, once nutrients are low. Spectrum will play with growth/reproduction rates of zoas. The SPS will have to depend more on water chemistry, as we know (Ca++, Mg, Sr, alk,"¦) for their normal growth. Other facts will play with growth too, like temperature and water flow.

What I think is happening in that tank in Orlando is that the zoas are feeding on the "heavy feeding" and growing because of that. The food supplies the nutrients for the growth and the light is the secondary factor. Zoas are able to do that very well. I'm in favor of lightly target feed the zoas. The only problem is that in the long run I believe the zoas will morph to that spectrum offered and will loose pigments normally found in nature, under normal sun light. If they go to another tank with a lower K they will show the difference and adaptation would need more attention the usually. That's only in the long run.

One can set a system like that, with the heavy feeding and higher K, very blue, for a short period of time. I would think the main reason for the heavy blue spectrum would be to prevent excess algae, once the feeding is so high.
I don't think that would be healthy for the zoas in the long run. They aren't found in only blue light in nature.

Just my US$.02.

Grandis.

 

[aguila88psi]

Roger, I'll sell you my tank water when I do my next water change haha just kidding.

All blue light makes the Z/P's fluoresce more, which in turn feeds the coral through the whole host symbiotic Zoox or dinoflagellates photosynthesis process, no need for white light at all IME.

Btw, mixing blue and green light you get a bluish white look

 

[A. Grandis]

Roger, I'll sell you my tank water when I do my next water change haha just kidding.

All blue light makes the Z/P's fluoresce more, which in turn feeds the coral through the whole host symbiotic Zoox or dinoflagellates photosynthesis process, no need for white light at all IME.

Btw, mixing blue and green light you get a bluish white look

Hello Pedro,
The fluorescence capture by our eyes when we lit the organisms with blue light only are mostly reflection of the different pigments in the organisms.
I'm not sure if that would actually "in turn feed the coral through the whole host symbiotic Zoox".
The mix of blue and green will also be seen as reflection.

I've learned the "white" and blue together are responsible for the "feeding process" through the zooxanthellae, as far as I know. That is part of the basics of reef keeping since the mid 80's.
Full spectrum is a combo of colors from the spectrum. The "white" part is a mix of the basic colors.

I would like to know where did you learn that?

Thanks,
Grandis.

 

[aguila88psi]

Learn what?

Blue and green make a bluish white look? Mixing light is different then mixing pigments, if you mix all the differnt pigments together you get black, oposite if you mix different color light you get white. In essence you can mix red and blue and you'll be getting closer to white (in the right proportions of course) then if you were just using blue or red alone.

Corals feeding off of light? Didn't learn this through reading textbooks, more of an observation.

The ultimate goal with lighting for me is visual appearance and growth of the coral, not to mimic the sun. With zoanthids, I'm more interested on the colors they flouresce also coined the term "Pop" so white light is not needed for this to happen. Based on what I've experienced in my own tank, highly fluorescing corals don't need white light. Now whether white light is needed to other aspects of the tank I don't know, maybe that can be controlled with a refugium.

 

[A. Grandis]

Learn what?

This:

All blue light makes the Z/P's fluoresce more, which in turn feeds the coral through the whole host symbiotic Zoox or dinoflagellates photosynthesis process, no need for white light at all IME.

Blue and green make a bluish white look? Mixing light is different then mixing pigments, if you mix all the differnt pigments together you get black, oposite if you mix different color light you get white.

Nope, please note I was referring to pigments (blue and green).

In essence you can mix red and blue and you'll be getting closer to white (in the right proportions of course) then if you were just using blue or red alone.

Blue and red will actually result in brown for pigments. For light that would work, I guess, but that's not full spectrum either ("real white").

Corals feeding off of light? Didn't learn this through reading textbooks, more of an observation.

You can find that in text books as well. Corals are normally found in shallow waters, where blue light is ALSO present. If you dive or snorkel in shallow waters you will see that most corals aren't found under total blue spectrum only. You just don't find the zoanthids that are sold in the aquarium trade under total blue spectrum in nature.

The ultimate goal with lighting for me is visual appearance and growth of the coral, not to mimic the sun. With zoanthids, I'm more interested on the colors they flouresce also coined the term "Pop" so white light is not needed for this to happen. Based on what I've experienced in my own tank, highly fluorescing corals don't need white light. Now whether white light is needed to other aspects of the tank I don't know, maybe that can be controlled with a refugium.

You can do whatever you want, of course, and keep your polyps how you want.
If your goal is to keep them under all blue light and not to mimic the sun that's your goal.
You gave your advice.
I gave mine.

No problem.

What would be the best for the zoas in the long run?
I would think conditions similar of where they were found in nature. But that's just my opinion.

Grandis.

 

[A. Grandis]

In this video (4:00), you can see Mr. Paletta saying that he noticed his corals growing faster when placed under lower kelvin MH bulbs. I agree with him completely. All my zoas had a great growth/reproduction rates under the 250W Uhio MH bulb with supplemental actinic. I had 2 250W Ushio bulbs over my old 55gal tank. 2 54W NO actinic bulbs as a supplemental light, long ago!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si4ljn9mrXY

Blue light only isn't the best to grow corals.

In this other video (22:54), Dr. Sanjay says that he is not sure if bluer light is the best light for the corals to grow.
Quote from Dr. Sanjay: "They look good dying".
Not different for zoas IMO. I agree with Dr. Sanjay.
But everyone has a different way to look at it, I guess.

Dr. Sanjay actually recommend Mr. Paletta to change the lighten his experiment tank to a fixture more towards full spectrum, more "white", instead the bluer version.

Dr. Sanjay is considered the authority on lighting for reef tanks. He wrote many articles and is respected worldwide for his experiments and knowledge in that regard. Mr. Paletta also write articles and has over 30 years of experiences with reef tanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4yIEIM1R48

They are very interesting videos and there are lot's of things to learn.

Again, clearly not everyone have the same goals for their tanks, which is fine with me.
I just put my opinions out.

Grandis.

 

[aguila88psi]

Nice, thanks for the links, gonna have to check them out soon. My sps love the 10-12k lighting, I use all t5s with actinic LEDs.

 

[A. Grandis]

:thumbsup:

Grandis.