Flukes? reef tank & pod cultures

[Flashy Fins]

Need some advice. I think I'm dealing with flukes and want to run my game plan by others before I start, in case am I missing something obvious. Clearly, I've made some mistakes along the way if I have flukes in my display, so here I am.

I've had 2 fish die recently, I suspect from flukes. The first to die was a green banded goby (Elacatinus multifasciatus) who showed ragged fins and breathed slowly with his gills open wide for several days, then went into what I can only describe as a full blown seizure before death. This was not merely a few twitches of his head; this was his entire body jumping and flipping around, sometimes landing him upside down (which he did not seem to notice or could not correct on his own; another spasm would soon flip him upright). The fish did not breathe rapidly, did not come to the surface to gasp for air, did not show any spots, etc. His only symptoms were ragged fins, slow and large breaths for several days, then the seizure before death. He was somewhat lethargic the day he died, but not dramatically so. More than a week later, the same thing happened to my tiger goby (Elacatinus macrodon), the only differences being less ragged fins but a much more intense seizure. Flukes are the only explanation I've been able to come up with, although that is only a researched guess. Corals and inverts all seem fine.

Other fish are showing a few other symptoms. My mandarin suddenly has some sort of growth or fuzziness in the middle of her tail, different from the ragged fins the gobies had, but I've read a sign of possible flukes. A couple of times lately, I've watched one of my blue striped pipefish rub his belly against algae growing on the glass, but it was only for a moment each time, possibly an itch, with no other symptoms. Everything happening could be a result of flukes, from what I've read, but other educated guesses are welcome. If this is something else, I need to know what I'm dealing with.

Fish in the display:
1 mandarin
1 ruby red dragonet
2 blue striped pipefish
1 green banded goby

May or may not be important, but I believe the flukes came in with the green banded gobies. I started with 3 juveniles about a month ago, and they all had ragged fins when I bought them. I didn't think enough of it at the time, figuring it was just from them nipping one another. In hindsight (always 20/20, right?), I never actually saw them nipping at one another and should've realized the ragged fins were a sign of illness. 1 of the green banded gobies died, as noted, 1 disappeared never to be seen again, and the third is still in my reef with ragged fins. Regrettably, I only QT'ed the gobies for a week, with the thought that they needed to be in a reef with live food, given their tiny size (each about 0.5" long).

Given the diet requirements and difficulty of catching these tiny fish, I prefer to treat in my display tank. Assuming no one identifies this as something other than flukes, I'm planning to dose Prazi. I've never used it before and have two some concerns:

I have a coco worm in my tank. I know I need to remove it when treating, but I'm wondering if it will be safe to add it back once enough time has passed? From what I've read, if I keep it in a fish-free environment, 8 days should be long enough to take care of any adults or eggs. (Please correct me if this is not true.) How should I care for a coco worm living alone for 8 days? Should I target feed it?

I also have concerns about reintroduction to my display via pod cultures. I culture tisbe pods in gallon jugs with old tank water and am now worried about flukes or eggs in those cultures. Does it sound like a good strategy to combine the cultures, treat with Prazi the same as if there were fish in the water, and use sterilized containers when I separate them after treatment? Or should I just continue culturing as normal, but not let any water go from display to cultures (or cultures to display) for at least 8 days? All of my fish eat frozen food, as well, so I think they could make it without me harvesting any new pods for them for that long, but I need to be sure my cultures are fluke free once I do start harvesting again.

 

[Newsmyrna80]

Have you done a FW dip to confirm flukes? I have read that some have dosed Prazi in their main with no problems. More than likely you will have to do 2 rounds of Prazi, if not more, to kill the oncomiridium.
If you remove the coco (I would) leave it in a QT for a month. It would be ok if it went back in the main after the treatment was over but the worm can now act as a vector to reinfect the water. The same applies for the pods. If they came from infested water then they could reintroduce flukes back into the main.

 

[snorvich]

Best to confirm with a fresh water dip. If not flukes, see this.

 

[Flashy Fins]

Have you done a FW dip to confirm flukes? I have read that some have dosed Prazi in their main with no problems. More than likely you will have to do 2 rounds of Prazi, if not more, to kill the oncomiridium.

Thank you. I will go for 2 rounds. I wish I had done a freshwater dip on the fish that were having seizures, as that made them easy to catch. The others, I'm going to have a rough time pulling from the display, but I can try. I've never done a freshwater dip and am pretty nervous about the idea. Are any of my fish particularly sensitive to freshwater dips? I have read some fish are.

If I can catch him, I will start with the green banded goby, since that's the fish I think the flukes came in with and the most likely to have them now. I know to match pH and temp. How long should I dip for? 10 minutes or until I see a certain reaction from the fish?

If you remove the coco (I would) leave it in a QT for a month. It would be ok if it went back in the main after the treatment was over but the worm can now act as a vector to reinfect the water. The same applies for the pods. If they came from infested water then they could reintroduce flukes back into the main.

Wow, I wasn't expecting a whole month. I based the 8 days on your text from another thread:

An adult can live up to 6 days without a host. After an egg hatches the oncomiridium must find a host within 36 hours or it will die. A fluke cannot attack an invertebrate or coral.

Can you explain further about waiting a whole month? I feel I am not understanding or am missing something.

I really appreciate the help.

 

[Flashy Fins]

After typing that post, I decided to see if I could see catch the green banded goby. While looking around the tank for him, I noticed my mandarin almost lifeless on the sand, breathing heavily. She put up no resistance to being removed from the tank, and I put her in a cup of tank water while preparing a freshwater bath. It took me a half hour to get a reasonably close pH and temp. In that time, her breathing slowed to almost nothing, and I thought she would die before I even got her in the freshwater. I did get her in, and after a couple of minutes of floating around as if she was dead, she actually starting swimming around, somewhat erratically. The freshwater seemed to be helping, so I kept her in for five minutes, after which she appeared to be dead. I moved her back to the cup of tank water, just to be sure, then saw she was still breathing. It was maybe one or two breaths per minute, and after about 3 minutes, she stopped breathing. There did seem to be extra mucus in the water, but I don't know if that was just her normal mandarin slime coat, or related to disease.

In the freshwater bath, it was impossible for me to tell if there were flukes. There was debris floating around, but I couldn't tell if it was sand and other misc. particles from the tank water, or if they were flukes. The aeration of the water was too strong to allow me to tell what was floating and what might be swimming. I removed the airline once the fish was out of the bath, but by then, wouldn't the flukes have stropped moving? I had no idea what to really look for; I had assumed it would be easy to see flukes, but either it isn't, or there were no flukes. I tried to find a video online of what they would look like floating in a bowl or bucket, but I couldn't find anything useful.

I took some pictures of the fish just after death. This is how she looked when I found her near death in the tank; I don't think anything about her appearance changed. I noticed cloudy areas on her skin.

You can see the problems on her tail, as well.

I'm still not sure if I have flukes or something else, or possibly more than one problem. Going through the list in the link Steve gave...

DEFINITE symptoms, in the order I noticed them:

1. Ragged, torn, or missing fins (very true of green banded goby, slightly true with tiger goby, possibly true with mandarin [not sure if the damage on her tail was a growth of something, or a ragged fin])
Research:
a) Fin Rot and Tail Rot (bacterial)
b) Marine Ich (parasite)
c) Ammonia Poisoning in marine fish
d) Uronema (parasite)
e) Brooklynella (parasite)
f) Marine Flukes (parasite)

2. Fish is rapidly breathing or gasping (very true of mandarin, possibly true of the two gobies - I would say their breathing was slow and heavy, which I guess could be referred to as gasping)
Research:
a) Marine Velvet (parasite)
b) Brooklynella (parasite)
c) Marine Flukes (parasite)
d) Bacterial Infection in marine fish
e) Ammonia Poisoning in marine fish
f) Marine Ich (parasite)
g) Uronema (parasite)

3. Fish is twitching (it was more than just twitching, but both the green banded and tiger gobies twitched and had seizures; the mandarin may have done so before I found her almost dead, but I didn't see it)
Research:
a) Marine flukes (parasite)

4. Fish is lethargic and/or hiding (all fish were lethargic just before death)
Research:
a) Marine Velvet (parasite)
b) Head and Lateral Line Errosion "HLLE"
c) Dropsy (bacterial)
d) Bacterial Infection in marine fish

POSSIBLE symptoms

1. Excessive mucus on body or gills (possible with mandarin, but I couldn't tell if it was a normal mandarin coating or excessive)
Research:
a) Brooklynella (parasite)
b) Marine Flukes (parasite)
c) Uronema (parasite)

2. Fuzzy white or brown patches on body or fins (mandarin tail might have had this, but it also could've been a torn/ragged tail; I can't tell which)
Research:
a) Fungal Infection in marine fish
b) Columnaris (bacterial)

I have not yet dosed the Prazi. I was going to track down where to buy some today, but then I ran into the problem of my dying mandarin and had to deal with that instead.

I should mention that I have a flasher wrasse in QT. He is showing no symptoms of anything, and I have not used any nets or other items back and forth, but I did use some display tank water in his QT tank, so whatever my display has, he has been exposed to.

Not sure if I need to start a new thread, since this might not be flukes, but I'm feeling pretty desperate for help. If I need to remove all fish from the display and start medicating, I don't want to waste any time, but I also don't want to jump the gun and start tossing in medication that isn't necessary and might interact with what they really need. I still have 4 fish I don't want to lose.

Help very much appreciated.

 

[Dmorty217]

I have PP my DT more than once and it had no ill effects on anything in the tank (starfish, isopods,copepods, macro algae, sps, lps, softies, clams or feather dusters for that matter) i have also seachem para guard my DT at half the recommended dose for 3 wks on end with no problems, but do not do a full dose it will kill some inverts which in turn can cause nutrient problems and ammonia in the tank. PP is your safest and best bet, just follow the directions and dose at least 2 doses

 

[Newsmyrna80]

After typing that post, I decided to see if I could see catch the green banded goby. While looking around the tank for him, I noticed my mandarin almost lifeless on the sand, breathing heavily. She put up no resistance to being removed from the tank, and I put her in a cup of tank water while preparing a freshwater bath. It took me a half hour to get a reasonably close pH and temp. In that time, her breathing slowed to almost nothing, and I thought she would die before I even got her in the freshwater. I did get her in, and after a couple of minutes of floating around as if she was dead, she actually starting swimming around, somewhat erratically. The freshwater seemed to be helping, so I kept her in for five minutes, after which she appeared to be dead. I moved her back to the cup of tank water, just to be sure, then saw she was still breathing. It was maybe one or two breaths per minute, and after about 3 minutes, she stopped breathing. There did seem to be extra mucus in the water, but I don't know if that was just her normal mandarin slime coat, or related to disease.

In the freshwater bath, it was impossible for me to tell if there were flukes. There was debris floating around, but I couldn't tell if it was sand and other misc. particles from the tank water, or if they were flukes. The aeration of the water was too strong to allow me to tell what was floating and what might be swimming. I removed the airline once the fish was out of the bath, but by then, wouldn't the flukes have stropped moving? I had no idea what to really look for; I had assumed it would be easy to see flukes, but either it isn't, or there were no flukes. I tried to find a video online of what they would look like floating in a bowl or bucket, but I couldn't find anything useful.

I took some pictures of the fish just after death. This is how she looked when I found her near death in the tank; I don't think anything about her appearance changed. I noticed cloudy areas on her skin.

You can see the problems on her tail, as well.

I'm still not sure if I have flukes or something else, or possibly more than one problem. Going through the list in the link Steve gave...

DEFINITE symptoms, in the order I noticed them:

1. Ragged, torn, or missing fins (very true of green banded goby, slightly true with tiger goby, possibly true with mandarin [not sure if the damage on her tail was a growth of something, or a ragged fin])
Research:
a) Fin Rot and Tail Rot (bacterial)
b) Marine Ich (parasite)
c) Ammonia Poisoning in marine fish
d) Uronema (parasite)
e) Brooklynella (parasite)
f) Marine Flukes (parasite)

2. Fish is rapidly breathing or gasping (very true of mandarin, possibly true of the two gobies - I would say their breathing was slow and heavy, which I guess could be referred to as gasping)
Research:
a) Marine Velvet (parasite)
b) Brooklynella (parasite)
c) Marine Flukes (parasite)
d) Bacterial Infection in marine fish
e) Ammonia Poisoning in marine fish
f) Marine Ich (parasite)
g) Uronema (parasite)

3. Fish is twitching (it was more than just twitching, but both the green banded and tiger gobies twitched and had seizures; the mandarin may have done so before I found her almost dead, but I didn't see it)
Research:
a) Marine flukes (parasite)

4. Fish is lethargic and/or hiding (all fish were lethargic just before death)
Research:
a) Marine Velvet (parasite)
b) Head and Lateral Line Errosion "HLLE"
c) Dropsy (bacterial)
d) Bacterial Infection in marine fish

POSSIBLE symptoms

1. Excessive mucus on body or gills (possible with mandarin, but I couldn't tell if it was a normal mandarin coating or excessive)
Research:
a) Brooklynella (parasite)
b) Marine Flukes (parasite)
c) Uronema (parasite)

2. Fuzzy white or brown patches on body or fins (mandarin tail might have had this, but it also could've been a torn/ragged tail; I can't tell which)
Research:
a) Fungal Infection in marine fish
b) Columnaris (bacterial)

I have not yet dosed the Prazi. I was going to track down where to buy some today, but then I ran into the problem of my dying mandarin and had to deal with that instead.

I should mention that I have a flasher wrasse in QT. He is showing no symptoms of anything, and I have not used any nets or other items back and forth, but I did use some display tank water in his QT tank, so whatever my display has, he has been exposed to.

Not sure if I need to start a new thread, since this might not be flukes, but I'm feeling pretty desperate for help. If I need to remove all fish from the display and start medicating, I don't want to waste any time, but I also don't want to jump the gun and start tossing in medication that isn't necessary and might interact with what they really need. I still have 4 fish I don't want to lose.

Help very much appreciated.

OK, a few questions: How big is your tank and how long has it been set up How long have you the mandarin? Did you quarantine any of the fish before adding them to the main?
As far as the dip usually within 3-5 minutes flukes will begin to let go of the fish. You won't see them at first because they are transparent. But after 5-10 minutes they become opaque. Some describe them as sesame seeds or contact lenses. Here's a pic of a couple of flukes on a microscope slide.
It's hard to tell from a picture but based on the symptoms and the cloudy patches it looks like brook. Do you have any formalin or Quick Cure on hand?
How long has the wrasse been in a QT?

 

[Flashy Fins]

Thanks for the picture. I did see some things that resembled sesame seeds, but they might have just been sand or other debris. The bowl of freshwater ended up with bits of this and that in it from the thermometer I grabbed from the main tank and the net I used to catch the mandarin with (it also got a fair amount of sand in it, as I had to scoop her up from the bottom of the tank), so my water was not free of all debris, as I guess it should've been. After taking a half hour to get my temp and pH matched, and seeing the fish barely breathing at that point, I was in a hurry. Unfortunately, even with your clear picture, I can't really say if there were flukes or not in the water, and I've already dumped it. I do still have the body of the dead mandarin, but I don't think it's going to help me any.

The tank has been running for almost a year, but these fish were all added in the last month, and no fish were in the tank for 6 weeks prior to these fish being added. (I had a previous ich outbreak with only one survivor, who jumped from the tank a few weeks later. I started the 6 week countdown after he jumped.) Tank size is 29 gallons. I culture tisbe pods so everyone gets enough to eat, and I also feed cyclopeeze and Reef Nutrition R.O.E., both of which I've seen all the fish eat. I saw/see the dragonets sucking up a pod every few seconds, so I don't think there are any starvation issues, despite all the pod eaters in a small tank.

Although I have QT'ed fish in the past and agree with the importance of it, I did not fully QT these fish due to diet requirements. (As a side note, I welcome recommendations on how to QT very tiny fish and pod eaters such as mandarins, without needing to feed every hour.)

Fish addition timeline:

Green banded gobies added on the 7th, after one week in an aerated and heated fish bowl, mainly because I needed time to slowly raise their salinity to match my tank. They showed ragged fins from the start, and I do regret adding them to the display without realizing they were sick. I thought they must be nipping each other when I wasn't looking. Of three, one is still in my reef. (One disappeared a week in, so I have no way of knowing what happened to him; the second died after a seizure, as previously described.)

Ruby red dragonet added on the 8th, after spending a month in a friend's frag tank. (He was there so I could finish out my 6 weeks fallow.) He came to me fat and healthy looking, no symptoms of any sort.

Pipefish added on the 8th, no QT at all. They appeared healthy, and I thought it was best to get them into a reef with live rock and pods.

Tiger goby added on the 11th, after spending a few days in the fish bowl with a bubbler and heat (same bowl as the green banded gobies, although it was rinsed and dried between fish, with none of the same water used), time I used to slowly raise his salinity to match mine. No symptoms, seemed healthy.

Mandarin added on Sunday the 16th, no QT at all. She looked perfect and only showed the white stuff on her tail yesterday. That was her only symptom until I found her near death today, with the cloudy appearance as shown in the photos.

The wrasse in QT was purchased the same day as the mandarin, Sunday the 16th. He came from the same store and as the mandarin and essentially the same tank (they use dividers to create many tiny tanks for small fish). Because the wrasse eats pellets and does not need food every hour, I intend a full QT for him, no less than a month.

 

[Flashy Fins]

It's hard to tell from a picture but based on the symptoms and the cloudy patches it looks like brook. Do you have any formalin or Quick Cure on hand?

No, but I can run grab some. Hopefully, it's sold in big box stores, as everything else is closed. I'll go after this post.

I've been looking through a book I have (The Marine Fish Health & Feeding Handbook) and am starting to think the mandarin had brook. I still don't know about the other fish, but it's possible brook and flukes are both in my system.

 

[Flashy Fins]

I have PP my DT more than once and it had no ill effects on anything in the tank (starfish, isopods,copepods, macro algae, sps, lps, softies, clams or feather dusters for that matter) i have also seachem para guard my DT at half the recommended dose for 3 wks on end with no problems, but do not do a full dose it will kill some inverts which in turn can cause nutrient problems and ammonia in the tank. PP is your safest and best bet, just follow the directions and dose at least 2 doses

Thanks. Any anemones in your tank when you half dosed para guard? I have a maxi mini. Not sure I would want to risk it, but I'm curious.

 

[Flashy Fins]

Do you have any formalin or Quick Cure on hand?

It took driving all over town, but I now have a couple bottles of Quick Cure. I'm reading up on dips versus in-tank treatment (hospital tank, not my display). Do you recommend one method over the other?

Do you know of any interactions between Prime for locking ammonia and the Quick Cure used in-tank?

 

[Newsmyrna80]

It took driving all over town, but I now have a couple bottles of Quick Cure. I'm reading up on dips versus in-tank treatment (hospital tank, not my display). Do you recommend one method over the other?

Do you know of any interactions between Prime for locking ammonia and the Quick Cure used in-tank?

I did dips on a flame angel that had brook every other day. After the dip he would go into a clean QT. After 5 dips he was clean. I believe Prime is ok with Quick Cure but I've not used the two together so I don't have experience with it.

 

[Flashy Fins]

Some developments...

After purchasing Quick Cure last night, I noticed some white patches developing on the red dragonet that looked like they could be brook. I knew I needed to act fast, so I searched for info on Quick Cure dips and came across this post:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18974397&postcount=10

I decided this would be my course of action. I set up a new QT tank (clear rubbermaid bin) with new water mixed to 1.018 (didn't attempt to raise it further, since I'd likely overdue it, then have to spend more time diluting it, etc.). I also set up a container with 5 cups of freshwater (used distilled, as I was too nervous to use tap with Prime) and 5 drops of Quick Cure, which I aerated for over an hour. I didn't know if my fish had that much time to spare, but it was taking my QT tank water a while to mix and heat, so I was forced to wait, regardless.

I figured I would catch all fish and dip them together. Not sure if that was a good idea or bad, but it didn't work out that way, anyhow. I had bowls with water from the QT set up next to my Quick Cure station, so I could rinse the fish before placing them in the QT. Don't know if it was necessary, but I'm glad I did it, as I ended up really needing that water.

I turned out the lights in the display tank, so the fish would go to sleep and be easier to catch. A few minutes later, I noticed the red dragonet facing the back wall of the tank and being crawled on by a snail. I got very nervous that he was dead and now a meal, so I went in to net him. He woke up and moved away, but not by much. It took a few gentle pushes to get him where I could remove him from the tank, and each time he reacted by swimming away just a tiny bit. That's nothing compared to how he would normally act; he usually runs and hides at lightning speed the minute he thinks I am even looking at him.

I put him in the Quick Cure dip, which he had little reaction to at first. After 6 minutes, he started freaking out, literally jumping from the water. I moved him to the bowl of water from the QT tank, where he calmed down at first, then started freaking out again after 4 minutes. I hadn't expected him to do that in the saltwater, and I had to make a split-second decision on what to do. I decided to try him in the Quick Cure dip again, and that did seem to be the right thing, as he calmly stayed in for 15 minutes the second go. After that, the jumping began again, so I moved him back to the saltwater bowl. He was breathing heavily and rapidly, swimming around and bobbing the surface for air at times. About 10 minutes, he once again started jumping, and again, I was caught off guard that he was having this reaction to the saltwater, so I tried putting him in the Quick Cure bath for a third time. That lasted only a few seconds before he was jumping very high and making it known the baths had to stop. I put him back in the bowl of QT saltwater and let him rest for another 10 minutes, most of which he spent very still. Breaths were heavy and slowing dramatically, and I figured he was going to die. However, that didn't happen, so I moved him to the QT tank, where he is now. I can see that he is alive, but barely so. He isn't moving much, and his breaths are slow and heavy.

I paid more attention when dipping this time, making sure my containers and water were free of debris, so I could spot flukes or anything else that might come off the fish. A few things did. I also noticed strings of mucus coming from the fish, especially when he was in the saltwater rinse (but maybe it was just easier to see in a blue bowl with clear water, versus a clear container with blue water).

You can see something in the top left area of the photo. Here it is cropped:

Sorry the picture isn't larger.

Arrows point out the string of mucus, white patch on the fish, and a fluke or something else in the top left area. Cropped:

Another floating fluke, I suspect.

I'm going to assume I am dealing with flukes and brook, at the least. Next course of action is to catch my pipefish pair and dip them. I did not see the green banded goby at all yesterday, but his favorite areas of the tank are places I can't see him well, so he could turn up. I'm keeping an eye out for him, although I doubt I will be able to catch him without emptying the tank. Even then, he could easily hide deep inside a rock, as he fits through as easily as bristle worms do.

 

[Flashy Fins]

I did dips on a flame angel that had brook every other day. After the dip he would go into a clean QT. After 5 dips he was clean. I believe Prime is ok with Quick Cure but I've not used the two together so I don't have experience with it.

How long were your dips? I added only a heater and powerhead to the QT tank. Should I also add an airstone? I feel the powerhead is putting out more flow than the pipefish are going to be comfortable with, but I haven't dipped them yet. I am waiting for my Quick Cure dip to aerate a bit longer first.

I have a HOB filter with a sponge on the main tank that I thought about adding to the QT for filtration, but then I thought better of it. It's likely contaminated, so I'm guessing I shouldn't. I'll have to rely on Prime and water changes. I'm not sure how I'm going to handle feeding. The fish do eat frozen, but if the dragonet makes it, I don't know how I'm going to get food to him often enough without loading the tank with ammonia. I could hatch some baby brine and add that, but I don't think I should add pods from my contaminated cultures. I thought about grabbing a chunk of chaeto from my fuge to toss in (would surely have pods in it), but I'm worried about contamination with that, too, so I haven't.

I was thinking, should I just harvest all my pods and add them to the display? I realize I'm going to have to let it run fallow for a while (8 weeks? 12?), so if I add all the pods now, I'm just adding contaminated water to a contaminated tank, before the clock starts on a fallow period. I can order more pods and get some new, clean cultures going (new containers, new water, etc.).

 

[Flashy Fins]

Also, should I dip the wrasse and add him to the new QT with the fish from the display? I have read flasher wrasses are sensitive to the dip. He has been exposed to everything the display fish have been, but they have not been exposed to whatever things he may have (except the mandarin, which came from the same store). I noticed last night he seemed a bit lethargic. It would be easier to QT all fish together, but what if he has ich, velvet, or something else? I guess I answered my own question (keep them separate), but I still wonder about dipping him.

 

[Newsmyrna80]

Some developments...

After purchasing Quick Cure last night, I noticed some white patches developing on the red dragonet that looked like they could be brook. I knew I needed to act fast, so I searched for info on Quick Cure dips and came across this post:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18974397&postcount=10

I decided this would be my course of action. I set up a new QT tank (clear rubbermaid bin) with new water mixed to 1.018 (didn't attempt to raise it further, since I'd likely overdue it, then have to spend more time diluting it, etc.). I also set up a container with 5 cups of freshwater (used distilled, as I was too nervous to use tap with Prime) and 5 drops of Quick Cure, which I aerated for over an hour. I didn't know if my fish had that much time to spare, but it was taking my QT tank water a while to mix and heat, so I was forced to wait, regardless.

I figured I would catch all fish and dip them together. Not sure if that was a good idea or bad, but it didn't work out that way, anyhow. I had bowls with water from the QT set up next to my Quick Cure station, so I could rinse the fish before placing them in the QT. Don't know if it was necessary, but I'm glad I did it, as I ended up really needing that water.

I turned out the lights in the display tank, so the fish would go to sleep and be easier to catch. A few minutes later, I noticed the red dragonet facing the back wall of the tank and being crawled on by a snail. I got very nervous that he was dead and now a meal, so I went in to net him. He woke up and moved away, but not by much. It took a few gentle pushes to get him where I could remove him from the tank, and each time he reacted by swimming away just a tiny bit. That's nothing compared to how he would normally act; he usually runs and hides at lightning speed the minute he thinks I am even looking at him.

I put him in the Quick Cure dip, which he had little reaction to at first. After 6 minutes, he started freaking out, literally jumping from the water. I moved him to the bowl of water from the QT tank, where he calmed down at first, then started freaking out again after 4 minutes. I hadn't expected him to do that in the saltwater, and I had to make a split-second decision on what to do. I decided to try him in the Quick Cure dip again, and that did seem to be the right thing, as he calmly stayed in for 15 minutes the second go. After that, the jumping began again, so I moved him back to the saltwater bowl. He was breathing heavily and rapidly, swimming around and bobbing the surface for air at times. About 10 minutes, he once again started jumping, and again, I was caught off guard that he was having this reaction to the saltwater, so I tried putting him in the Quick Cure bath for a third time. That lasted only a few seconds before he was jumping very high and making it known the baths had to stop. I put him back in the bowl of QT saltwater and let him rest for another 10 minutes, most of which he spent very still. Breaths were heavy and slowing dramatically, and I figured he was going to die. However, that didn't happen, so I moved him to the QT tank, where he is now. I can see that he is alive, but barely so. He isn't moving much, and his breaths are slow and heavy.

I paid more attention when dipping this time, making sure my containers and water were free of debris, so I could spot flukes or anything else that might come off the fish. A few things did. I also noticed strings of mucus coming from the fish, especially when he was in the saltwater rinse (but maybe it was just easier to see in a blue bowl with clear water, versus a clear container with blue water).

You can see something in the top left area of the photo. Here it is cropped:

Sorry the picture isn't larger.

Arrows point out the string of mucus, white patch on the fish, and a fluke or something else in the top left area. Cropped:

Another floating fluke, I suspect.

I'm going to assume I am dealing with flukes and brook, at the least. Next course of action is to catch my pipefish pair and dip them. I did not see the green banded goby at all yesterday, but his favorite areas of the tank are places I can't see him well, so he could turn up. I'm keeping an eye out for him, although I doubt I will be able to catch him without emptying the tank. Even then, he could easily hide deep inside a rock, as he fits through as easily as bristle worms do.

Are you using formalin in a freshwater dip? A formalin dip for brook needs to be in saltwater for 30 minutes. A six minute FW dip is too long for most fish especially a goby.

 

[Newsmyrna80]

How long were your dips? I added only a heater and powerhead to the QT tank. Should I also add an airstone? I feel the powerhead is putting out more flow than the pipefish are going to be comfortable with, but I haven't dipped them yet. I am waiting for my Quick Cure dip to aerate a bit longer first.

I have a HOB filter with a sponge on the main tank that I thought about adding to the QT for filtration, but then I thought better of it. It's likely contaminated, so I'm guessing I shouldn't. I'll have to rely on Prime and water changes. I'm not sure how I'm going to handle feeding. The fish do eat frozen, but if the dragonet makes it, I don't know how I'm going to get food to him often enough without loading the tank with ammonia. I could hatch some baby brine and add that, but I don't think I should add pods from my contaminated cultures. I thought about grabbing a chunk of chaeto from my fuge to toss in (would surely have pods in it), but I'm worried about contamination with that, too, so I haven't.

I was thinking, should I just harvest all my pods and add them to the display? I realize I'm going to have to let it run fallow for a while (8 weeks? 12?), so if I add all the pods now, I'm just adding contaminated water to a contaminated tank, before the clock starts on a fallow period. I can order more pods and get some new, clean cultures going (new containers, new water, etc.).

Do not bring over anything from the main. I've had to run my mandarin through a QT twice. I relied on bottled pods, frozen food, caviar eggs and chaeto from my LFS. He now eats mysis like everyone else in the main.

 

[Newsmyrna80]

Also, should I dip the wrasse and add him to the new QT with the fish from the display? I have read flasher wrasses are sensitive to the dip. He has been exposed to everything the display fish have been, but they have not been exposed to whatever things he may have (except the mandarin, which came from the same store). I noticed last night he seemed a bit lethargic. It would be easier to QT all fish together, but what if he has ich, velvet, or something else? I guess I answered my own question (keep them separate), but I still wonder about dipping him.

At this point if the wrasse is not acting right you may want to do a series of three dips. That is formalin or Quick Cure in saltwater dips. What dosage are you using of Quick Cure?

 

[Flashy Fins]

Are you using formalin in a freshwater dip? A formalin dip for brook needs to be in saltwater for 30 minutes. A six minute FW dip is too long for most fish especially a goby.

Eeek, yes, I did do the Quick Cure dips in freshwater! I used 5 drops of Quick Cure in 5 cups of freshwater, based on what I read in the post I linked.

Process went like this:
removed red dragonet from display
6 minutes in freshwater with QC, then fish started jumping
4 minutes in saltwater, then fish started jumping
15 minutes in freshwater with QC :eek2:, then fish started jumping
10 minutes in saltwater, then fish started jumping
a few seconds in freshwater with QC, fish couldn't take it
10 minutes in saltwater in a bowl, then placed in new QT tank

The reason I kept putting the fish back into the freshwater with QC was b/c he would freak out and wildly jump from the saltwater after so long. He did that with both the freshwater and the saltwater, so I just moved him back and forth, trying to keep him wherever he was less jumpy. That was not my game plan, but I was caught by surprise and had to make instant decisions. With him reacting wildly after some time no matter where I put him, I didn't know what to do.

I haven't done any dips today. The dragonet is somehow still alive in the new QT tank, but he looks dead unless you stare for several minutes to notice tiny gill movements. I'm sure I haven't helped his state with my misunderstanding of how to perform the dips. Should I give him a day of rest, or does he need to go into a saltwater/Quick Cure dip today? How much Quick Cure in how much saltwater?

 

[Flashy Fins]

When I'm doing the first Quick Cure dip with the pipefish (still in the display, have not caught them yet), should I use display tank water they are used to, or should I use water from the new QT with lower salinity?

Just the first dip, I mean. I assume once they go into the QT, dips should done with water taken from that tank.