Foam stuff for the "rock work" look????
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Andru881
Premium Member
I just sprayed some foam into my prop tank to make some slow moving areas...I covered the thing with wet sand right after I did it and it made some cool voids. Ill post a pic later...
I little word to the wise though, do not get the spray foam in the hair on your fore arm...really really really hurts to pull it out...
I little word to the wise though, do not get the spray foam in the hair on your fore arm...really really really hurts to pull it out...
tgreene
Reefer
Nope, all of the foam completely pulled away, leaving huge voids between the foam and the glass. Because of this, the cracks were progressively getting worse as the curing continued.H20ENG said:
Yesterday I was intent on repairing the damage with the epoxy/cheesecloth method suggested by Bishop, but when I got home last night and noticed it was getting worse, I bagged that whole idea... This morning I completely tore it all out in a matter of about 20 minutes, which sucks, because it took 2 full days to build it. :mad2: :mad2: :mad2:
Oh well, it looks like sand impregnated black epoxy paint will be the end result of my miserably failed project tank. The sand is obviously to add texture, which will add a huge amount of surface area for bacteria to grow on, as well as make it easier for certain corals and inverts to adhere to the back.
Beenalongtime79
New member
I honestly have no idea why you don't just spray on the foam and then just leave it at that.... Stuff grows on it in a short amount of time 
Peace,
John H.
Peace,
John H.
Beenalongtime79
New member
I bet w/ proper supplementation, aquascaping... you would have had that foam backdrop covered in under one year!
Peace,
John H.
Peace,
John H.
DRZL-sauras
New member
tgreene said:
Earlier in the thread it was stated that the epoxy did not adhere well to glass, it should be used w/ eggcrate or acrylic, it DOES bond well with plastic, and that in turn w/ GE II silicone DOES adhere prefectly to the back . Also this is expanding foam, it shouldnt be put thick on the edges as in a worst case scenario it could pop the seams of your tank. You leave a 1/2 spot for it to expand too.
As well as from the get go sand was advised against as it suck for adhesion to the foam, aragonite/crushed coral is a much better option
Not to sound like an a$$ but if you had looked for the answers they are all there. IMO you were doomed from the start
tgreene
Reefer
I did leave a 1/2 inch around the edges!
I didn't use any epoxy!
I didn't use sand with the foam!
And so I guess that about shoots your theory all to hell...
The epoxy I'm referring to, would be 2-part marine epoxy paint, which absolutely does adhere to glass, and quite well!
Not to sound like an a$$, but if you actually had a clue as to what I had done, you wouldn't have commented as you did in the first place. :rolleye1:
I didn't use any epoxy!
I didn't use sand with the foam!
And so I guess that about shoots your theory all to hell...
The epoxy I'm referring to, would be 2-part marine epoxy paint, which absolutely does adhere to glass, and quite well!
Not to sound like an a$$, but if you actually had a clue as to what I had done, you wouldn't have commented as you did in the first place. :rolleye1:
Beenalongtime79
New member
Let's not get too catty here people.
Beenalongtime79
New member
tgreene's experience will help out a lot of people
DRZL-sauras
New member
tgreene said:
"Sand" and "Foam directly on glass" mention...Both no no's i brought up that you DID do. Maybe your the one that obviously doesn't have a clue to what your doing. I'm not the one with a garbage full of foam
let me make a simple diagram for you
(Foam)
(acrylic or eggcrate sheet)
(silicone)
(glass)
Sheessh
Andres
tgreene
Reefer
I'm sorry, I do wish that I could be as PERFECT as you, but sadly, I'm not...
On the otherhand, FOAM DIRECTLY ON GLASS has worked for countless others, and the SAND was in the cement, not sprinkled directly to the foam as others have mentioned doing.
Nowhere in this thread, has anyone including yourself mentioned using an eggcrate base in conjunction with cement. Eggcrate & foam, yes. Eggcrate w/ foam & cement... NO!
Now, there have been a hell of a lot of people that have not used the eggcrate and everything seems to be working just fine for them, but I digress, they aren't working with a 72" canvas either.
The bottom line is I tried it and it didn't work for me, but however my system turns out, is of no concern to such a perfect specimen of humanity as yourself.
On the otherhand, FOAM DIRECTLY ON GLASS has worked for countless others, and the SAND was in the cement, not sprinkled directly to the foam as others have mentioned doing.
Nowhere in this thread, has anyone including yourself mentioned using an eggcrate base in conjunction with cement. Eggcrate & foam, yes. Eggcrate w/ foam & cement... NO!
Now, there have been a hell of a lot of people that have not used the eggcrate and everything seems to be working just fine for them, but I digress, they aren't working with a 72" canvas either.
The bottom line is I tried it and it didn't work for me, but however my system turns out, is of no concern to such a perfect specimen of humanity as yourself.
AnnArborBuck
New member
tgreene and DRZL-sauras, lets step back away from the keyboard here for a second, the personal attacks are not needed.
What DRZL-sauras was trying say I think is that with a backing of eggcrate the foam will resist the shrinking of the cememt as it cures. Since you put the foam on the glass, it didn' have enough "grip" or inner strength to resist the shrinkage.
You could think of the eggcrate as "rebar" for the foam. I think many people can learn from the issue that you had tgreene, so even though you think it is a loss others will benefit from your experience. After all, isn't that what this forum is all about. I for one know to use eggcrate now when I do my foam background, so thanks for the info.
What DRZL-sauras was trying say I think is that with a backing of eggcrate the foam will resist the shrinking of the cememt as it cures. Since you put the foam on the glass, it didn' have enough "grip" or inner strength to resist the shrinkage.
You could think of the eggcrate as "rebar" for the foam. I think many people can learn from the issue that you had tgreene, so even though you think it is a loss others will benefit from your experience. After all, isn't that what this forum is all about. I for one know to use eggcrate now when I do my foam background, so thanks for the info.
tgreene
Reefer
I don't believe eggcrate would have done much at all to help, because as the cement cured and hardened to the foam, it pulled at the foam, compressing and shrinking it... Even w/ eggcrate, while the plastic grip wouldn't move, the foam would still release from the glass.
It isn't so much that it cracked and left voids, because those would be easily repairable by simply pouring more cement into those voids, in a very thin slurry. My primary concern, was the ability for water to get in behind the foam (and/or eggcrate grid), where it will become stagnant and ultimately toxic.
As I mentioned above, my tank is 72" long, so it would take much less to pop loose than others' smaller tanks. The outer edges held fine, it was the inside plane that buckled, much like flat bread does when it's cooked.
The potential for disaster was not something I was willing to risk, so I chose to scrap the whole concept. As unique and artistic as it was, at least I know enough to not placed a Band-Aid on a wish and a prayer!
It isn't so much that it cracked and left voids, because those would be easily repairable by simply pouring more cement into those voids, in a very thin slurry. My primary concern, was the ability for water to get in behind the foam (and/or eggcrate grid), where it will become stagnant and ultimately toxic.
As I mentioned above, my tank is 72" long, so it would take much less to pop loose than others' smaller tanks. The outer edges held fine, it was the inside plane that buckled, much like flat bread does when it's cooked.
The potential for disaster was not something I was willing to risk, so I chose to scrap the whole concept. As unique and artistic as it was, at least I know enough to not placed a Band-Aid on a wish and a prayer!
DRZL-sauras
New member
Im far from perfect dude, lets chill out, I dont want to get this thread closed from lil ol me and you.
I felt as if some of the things you did led you to an unsuccessful project.
Firstly
Why add cement? this weighs down the foam considerably but not in a good way. It'll tilt it over to the side. You already painted the foam, why more "protection" using the term loosely here. It does not leach, I havent seen any crumbling, nada, ive had mine now for 5 months clams SPS, LPS, Acans, Softies not a single problem. Of course for longevity i go by Tanu's TOTM he bought the tank with the backing on it already from someone who had it for a pretty decent amount of time then adding his system which has been up a few years.
Look at his TOTM in previous RK magazine. Its covered in coralline.
I dont know nothing against you but i dont see the need for being so a-nal. We put alot of money in our tanks yes i know but there are already guinea pigs and we are squealing in delight.
IMO the overdoing of the project in your case was the demise
Take it easy!!
I wish u luck in whatever you decide to man, I really mean it. No online grudges
promise
Andres
I felt as if some of the things you did led you to an unsuccessful project.
Firstly
Why add cement? this weighs down the foam considerably but not in a good way. It'll tilt it over to the side. You already painted the foam, why more "protection" using the term loosely here. It does not leach, I havent seen any crumbling, nada, ive had mine now for 5 months clams SPS, LPS, Acans, Softies not a single problem. Of course for longevity i go by Tanu's TOTM he bought the tank with the backing on it already from someone who had it for a pretty decent amount of time then adding his system which has been up a few years.
Look at his TOTM in previous RK magazine. Its covered in coralline.
I dont know nothing against you but i dont see the need for being so a-nal. We put alot of money in our tanks yes i know but there are already guinea pigs and we are squealing in delight.
IMO the overdoing of the project in your case was the demise
Take it easy!!
I wish u luck in whatever you decide to man, I really mean it. No online grudges
promise
Andres
tgreene
Reefer
First of all, I never painted the foam, so I guess it is YOU that has trouble comprehending the steps that I posted pictures of. I simply covered the foam with tinted cement. No paint, never, nada!
Secondly, The foam was cured and solid as a rock. At no time did the foam ever tilt -- IT SHRANK!
Now, before you begin attacking what I did, which was precisely the same as Bishop by the way, you probably should have taken the time to review precisely what it was that I actually did. I thought I had made it very clear, with the extensive use of large pictures, but I digress...
Now, since it was YOU that essentially called me an idiot for not reading the complete thread, I'll again point out that in fact it was you that didn't read things properly!
Was my project an embarrasing waste of $100..? Yep, it sure was. My rationale for posting my failure explicitly though, is so that someone else doesn't make the same mistakes that I just made. Now, since YOU obviously have a better method, how about you go buy a 72" tank and be the 'super-sized' guinnea pig..? FWIW: Since my tank is not painted yet, I had the ability to watch this entire process take place, from behind and below, so I do know exactly what happened, as I've already pointed out many times.
Now, go pet your Lionfish!
Secondly, The foam was cured and solid as a rock. At no time did the foam ever tilt -- IT SHRANK!
Now, before you begin attacking what I did, which was precisely the same as Bishop by the way, you probably should have taken the time to review precisely what it was that I actually did. I thought I had made it very clear, with the extensive use of large pictures, but I digress...
Now, since it was YOU that essentially called me an idiot for not reading the complete thread, I'll again point out that in fact it was you that didn't read things properly!
Was my project an embarrasing waste of $100..? Yep, it sure was. My rationale for posting my failure explicitly though, is so that someone else doesn't make the same mistakes that I just made. Now, since YOU obviously have a better method, how about you go buy a 72" tank and be the 'super-sized' guinnea pig..? FWIW: Since my tank is not painted yet, I had the ability to watch this entire process take place, from behind and below, so I do know exactly what happened, as I've already pointed out many times.
Now, go pet your Lionfish!
delv
In Memoriam
The foam will shrink...not from cement...my foam shrank quite a bit....slowly over two weeks. Cement had nothing to do with this.
An eggcrate scaffold is necessary..furthermore, the eggcrate (or something similar) must be anchored to the aquarium. Otherwise, it will float and warp and maybe even pop out of the aquarium. I'd think the best solution is to anchor the scaffold by sandwiching it to the side/bottom of the tank with siliconed glass or bonded acrylic depending on the material the tank is constructed of.
The cement is an unecessary complication...my foam is about %85 covered in coraline and SPS after roughly six months.
Of course you can do it any way you like...enjoy.
d.
An eggcrate scaffold is necessary..furthermore, the eggcrate (or something similar) must be anchored to the aquarium. Otherwise, it will float and warp and maybe even pop out of the aquarium. I'd think the best solution is to anchor the scaffold by sandwiching it to the side/bottom of the tank with siliconed glass or bonded acrylic depending on the material the tank is constructed of.
The cement is an unecessary complication...my foam is about %85 covered in coraline and SPS after roughly six months.
Of course you can do it any way you like...enjoy.
d.
gatohoser
New member
delv,
can we get some more pictures of ur system please? I'd love to see how its doing.
Seems like the lesson learned is that you must wait 2 weeks for the first foam to dry. Then you can fill in the edges again with foam and THEN if you decide to do anything else you can add it then (such as cement or epoxy or whatever). Seems like it was just a lesson in taking our time (as seem to be like 90% of the problems in the entire hobby! but still I haven't learned ). And if you guys could both stop. I see that sauras tried to end it but he did it with a provocative statement so tgreene replied. Now we all understand that it was just a misunderstanding so how about we just end it. Sound good? You dont have to respond to say yes *wink wink*
can we get some more pictures of ur system please? I'd love to see how its doing.
Seems like the lesson learned is that you must wait 2 weeks for the first foam to dry. Then you can fill in the edges again with foam and THEN if you decide to do anything else you can add it then (such as cement or epoxy or whatever). Seems like it was just a lesson in taking our time (as seem to be like 90% of the problems in the entire hobby! but still I haven't learned
). And if you guys could both stop. I see that sauras tried to end it but he did it with a provocative statement so tgreene replied. Now we all understand that it was just a misunderstanding so how about we just end it. Sound good? You dont have to respond to say yes *wink wink*Beenalongtime79
New member
The foam bonds very well to acrylic. I'll have to take note of the less than desirable bond w/ the glass. 
Peace,
John H.
Peace,
John H.
Beenalongtime79
New member
Yes Delv... let's get some current pics of that very, very expensive set up of yours. Hehe
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