for those who claim to truly care... ;-p

[vitz]

Your a wise person, more people are waking up and thinking the same way. There is a correlation to education and breeding. Higher life forms tend have fewer children where as the others breed like rodents and burden society. Not always the case but more so today.



I wonder how much plastic this hobby uses?

One has to look at it on a linear scale. Initial cost vs sustainability. It costs less in terms of resources to produce a plastic bag when you consider that the bag is indefinitely re-useable.

Like George Carlin said, the products to produce the plastic come from the ground. Eventually the earth will assimilate these things after we are gone.

If gas were to rise to $8.00 a gallon, we would find alternate sources to petroleum. I like wood also but think the answer still lies in population growth. If humans were to pursue alternate sources of fuel and breed less things would improve.

uranium, plutonium, arsenic, cyanide, strychnine (SP), lead, and organic poisons also come from the ground.

what's your point ? :-/

 

[Phixer]

:lmao: :lmao:

No those come from the salad bar at Roys Rib Crib. And dont forget unobtainioum :lmao: as this what what is used to power the flux capacitors that allow the jump to light speed.

Vitz, why not just switch to decaf and accept the fact that you cant win, each one of your arguments has been beaten like a rented mule.

Yes, those elements come from the ground. :lmao: Do you intentionally consume them? Why not?

And on a scale of billions of years they have done no harm to the earth, the earth adapts and incorporates. Asteroids, comets, meteor showers, Tsunamis, ice ages, volcano's, tornado's, earthquakes...and...yes even plastic sacks. :lmao: So if the plastic makes it back to nature, nature will adapt to it and continue on. Asbestos for insulation, lead plumbing, arsenic to pressure treat wood, strychnine as rat poison and dioxin as herbicide... and then we evolved and learned they were bad for us so we stopped using them as much. Those elements still exist in nature and let alone cause no harm. Everything causes harm to something.

It rubs the lotion on it's skin or else it gets the hose again.

 

[vitz]

:lmao: :lmao:

No those come from the salad bar at Roys Rib Crib. And dont forget unobtainioum :lmao: as this what what is used to power the flux capacitors that allow the jump to light speed.

Vitz, why not just switch to decaf and accept the fact that you cant win, each one of your arguments has been beaten like a rented mule.

Yes, those elements come from the ground. :lmao: Do you intentionally consume them? Why not?

And on a scale of billions of years they have done no harm to the earth, the earth adapts and incorporates. Asteroids, comets, meteor showers, Tsunamis, ice ages, volcano's, tornado's, earthquakes...and...yes even plastic sacks. :lmao: So if the plastic makes it back to nature, nature will adapt to it and continue on. Asbestos for insulation, lead plumbing, arsenic to pressure treat wood, strychnine as rat poison and dioxin as herbicide... and then we evolved and learned they were bad for us so we stopped using them as much. Those elements still exist in nature and let alone cause no harm. Everything causes harm to something.

It rubs the lotion on it's skin or else it gets the hose again.

,

if the best you can do is childish insults and ad hominem attacks, it's clear you have neither the desire or ability to have a discussion on the subject you're participating in.

ever hear the phrase 'violence is the refuge of the incompetent?

so is trolling

please back up your contention that production and recycling of plastic is more environmentally friendly than that of paper.

 

[npj333]

All of those plastic bags? I save them, and the original huge bag gets gigantic. Then I bring it to the food bank. They use them to distribute food. The recipients bring them back week after week, then the food bank brings them to Basha's, when they're worn out, and they have the best recycling program for used grocery bags. Even Waste Management won't take them, they don't have the equipment to recycle them. (Please don't throw those or water bottle caps in your bin). But if you have a Basha's or AJ's nearby, they have a center that will turn those old bags into sanitized new ones for you. Sometimes I do use them to pick up dog poop though, and I feel bad about putting more plastic in the landfill. But damn, they're the best poopie bags for free ever! As long as the landfill churns the waste, it's going to create compost, even with bits of plastic in it. This is the most fertile soil Arizona is EVER going to get. They make kitchen counter bio-degradable plastics for countertop composting, they should make all garbage bags that way. But I stand by the fact that this thread got crazy :spin3:

 

[jdhuyvetter]

are you capable of engaging in a proper discussion, or are you merely interested in trolling, as evidenced by your posts ?

This is a very interesting comment considering your posts.

 

[Reeferz412]

Sort of off topic but a question: Do garbage companies sort through trash (not the recycling bin or can but the regular trash) to sort what is recyclable? I remember a thread going around and someone said regardless if you throw it in the recycling bin or your regular garbage, the garbage is sorted for recyclable items. Anyone have some info on this? I won't start throwing everything in the trash all together, but I know a lot of small plastics get thrown in the regular trash (i.e. bottle caps, small cups, plastic wrappers)

Also, whats the deal with styrofoam and the containers? I would say half of the time I tell someone to recycle it, they tell me it isn't recyclable because styrofoam is not considered recycle. Is it or is it not?

 

[vitz]

This is a very interesting comment considering your posts.

how so?

i'm not saying that one is better than the other, environmentally speaking.

i'm trying to point out that the issue of being able to REUSE one more than the other is hardly a criterion establishing overall environmental impact of one over the other.

the extraction/harvest of raw materials, and those methods' pollutants, the chemical processing of the raw materials to get the end product, how much of either remains and the remains' effects, the recycling process/industry and all of its pollutants also need to be taken into consideration.

any statement that claims one is more or less environmentally damaging w/out taking all of these factors into consideration is nothing more than completely specious argument, and BOTH materials have very complex 'chains' re: going from raw materiele to end product.

so how is that trolling?

 

[vitz]

This is a very interesting comment considering your posts.

hrmmm, really ?

have you seen me use profanity or insult anyone here, or use sarcastic derision towards anyone in this thread, in lieu of an actual answer ?

how is it interesting, pray tell ?

 

[vitz]

Sort of off topic but a question: Do garbage companies sort through trash (not the recycling bin or can but the regular trash) to sort what is recyclable? I remember a thread going around and someone said regardless if you throw it in the recycling bin or your regular garbage, the garbage is sorted for recyclable items. Anyone have some info on this? I won't start throwing everything in the trash all together, but I know a lot of small plastics get thrown in the regular trash (i.e. bottle caps, small cups, plastic wrappers)

Also, whats the deal with styrofoam and the containers? I would say half of the time I tell someone to recycle it, they tell me it isn't recyclable because styrofoam is not considered recycle. Is it or is it not?

styrofoam stays in the environment forever. afaik, it's not considered to be recyclable, as a material.

 

[jdhuyvetter]

hrmmm, really ?

have you seen me use profanity or insult anyone here, or use sarcastic derision towards anyone in this thread, in lieu of an actual answer ?

how is it interesting, pray tell ?

When you start a response with...."Are you capable of....."

To me, that would fall under "Sarcastic derision". I would see this as baiting someone.

To be fair, Phixer has thrown out his share of sarcasm as well.

 

[ReachTheSky]

Are you basing the survival of worldwide reefs specifically and ONLY on me driving my car? Then of course the answer is yes, I would stop driving. I'd walk, ride a bike, take the bus/train or carpool.

But that's not a realistic question at all. If I, alone, were to stop driving, the impact would be practically zero and it'd greatly inconvenience me and people who depend on me. In that case, I wouldn't. If a group of millions of people were to stop driving to conserve reefs, then you'd bet I'd join them.

 

[vitz]

i didn't pose it as a necessarily realistic question. it was presented as a hypothetical. and yes, it was dealing w/ the scenario of giving up one's car being the only thing necessary to occur to stop reef degradation. simply a thought exercise.

 

[ReachTheSky]

Oh, I see the point but I think you'd have to search far and wide to find an individual THAT selfish and disconnected from reality.

 

[Phixer]

All of those plastic bags? I save them, and the original huge bag gets gigantic. Then I bring it to the food bank. They use them to distribute food. The recipients bring them back week after week, then the food bank brings them to Basha's, when they're worn out, and they have the best recycling program for used grocery bags. Even Waste Management won't take them, they don't have the equipment to recycle them. (Please don't throw those or water bottle caps in your bin). But if you have a Basha's or AJ's nearby, they have a center that will turn those old bags into sanitized new ones for you. Sometimes I do use them to pick up dog poop though, and I feel bad about putting more plastic in the landfill. But damn, they're the best poopie bags for free ever! As long as the landfill churns the waste, it's going to create compost, even with bits of plastic in it. This is the most fertile soil Arizona is EVER going to get. They make kitchen counter bio-degradable plastics for countertop composting, they should make all garbage bags that way. But I stand by the fact that this thread got crazy :spin3:

Exactly! your an innovative person. They can be recycled/re-used (same thing) much longer than paper and dont require trees.

 

[Phixer]

Sort of off topic but a question: Do garbage companies sort through trash (not the recycling bin or can but the regular trash) to sort what is recyclable? I remember a thread going around and someone said regardless if you throw it in the recycling bin or your regular garbage, the garbage is sorted for recyclable items. Anyone have some info on this? I won't start throwing everything in the trash all together, but I know a lot of small plastics get thrown in the regular trash (i.e. bottle caps, small cups, plastic wrappers)

Also, whats the deal with styrofoam and the containers? I would say half of the time I tell someone to recycle it, they tell me it isn't recyclable because styrofoam is not considered recycle. Is it or is it not?

Everything returns to it's original state given enough time. Many people say that styrofoam lasts forever but no one actually knows this, it's always just speculation based on ignorance and fear as styrofoam has not been around for more than a million years to prove this. The answer is to stop making more of it and reuse/recycle what currently exists.

Styrofoam is definately recyclable / re-useable. Ive re-used it many times as insulation and packing material and it's become very popular as concrete building molds. The fear is how long it takes to return it to it's original base. For that reason it's prudent to recycle/reuse it.

Even rocks dont last forever and styrofoam will simply be changed in form and return to it's original components as does everything. Nature always wins. It may take a million years inside of a volcano though. IMHO

 

[Phixer]

,

if the best you can do is childish insults and ad hominem attacks, it's clear you have neither the desire or ability to have a discussion on the subject you're participating in.

ever hear the phrase 'violence is the refuge of the incompetent?

so is trolling

please back up your contention that production and recycling of plastic is more environmentally friendly than that of paper.

So lets get back on track, what do you think about the acrylic plastic used to manufacture aquariums for our hobby? Good or bad idea?

 

[vitz]

Exactly! your an innovative person. They can be recycled/re-used (same thing) much longer than paper and dont require trees.

er-no, they aren't, and you need to understand the difference:

"The concept of reuse is when a product that is newly purchased is put to another use after the first use is completed. Recycling is processing of used materials (waste) into new products to prevent waste of potentially useful materials."

when factoring in the TOTAL environmental impact of a material's use, the latter is equally, if not more, important, as/than the latter.

pretty straightforward concepts, and very different

 

[vitz]

Everything returns to it's original state given enough time. Many people say that styrofoam lasts forever but no one actually knows this, it's always just speculation based on ignorance and fear as styrofoam has not been around for more than a million years to prove this. The answer is to stop making more of it and reuse/recycle what currently exists.

Styrofoam is definately recyclable / re-useable. Ive re-used it many times as insulation and packing material and it's become very popular as concrete building molds. The fear is how long it takes to return it to it's original base. For that reason it's prudent to recycle/reuse it.

Even rocks dont last forever and styrofoam will simply be changed in form and return to it's original components as does everything. Nature always wins. It may take a million years inside of a volcano though. IMHO

there's that pesky definition thing again.

i think it's fairly obvious that terms like 'forever' in the context of this conversation (and most that use the term forever) are meant in the context of 'our' subjective timeline of existence.

a million years is forever, to a being who on avg doesn't make it to 100. i don't think anyone who uses the term 'forever' when speaking about plastic's 'lifespan' in the environment means 'until the end of the universe'

 

[vitz]

So lets get back on track, what do you think about the acrylic plastic used to manufacture aquariums for our hobby? Good or bad idea?

i'll answer your question if and when you answer mine

 

[Phixer]

er-no, they aren't, and you need to understand the difference:

"The concept of reuse is when a product that is newly purchased is put to another use after the first use is completed. Recycling is processing of used materials (waste) into new products to prevent waste of potentially useful materials."

when factoring in the TOTAL environmental impact of a material's use, the latter is equally, if not more, important, as/than the latter.

pretty straightforward concepts, and very different

See post 118, :lolspin: now your arguing with the dictionary?