power boat jim
Well-known member
Thank you.100% correct , the planet doesnt need saving, its been through way worse then us. Its us that need to be saved from ourselves.
for those who claim to truly care... ;-p
- Thread starter vitz
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Thank you.100% correct , the planet doesnt need saving, its been through way worse then us. Its us that need to be saved from ourselves.
atreis
New member
Neither, here. I've been using reusable bags for 6 years now. I have 10 bags. At an average of 8 bags per week used I've saved 2,486 (2,496-10) bags (of whatever sort) from being manufactured, used, and from needing recycling.
In addition, I get a 5c discount per bag for using my own bags, saving me $125 over that same time period. A trivial amount, but then the bags only cost me $25. (In other words, the cost for using my own bags: Nothing but net.)
vitz
New member
paper doesn't accumulate forever in the environment.
it's also not just about how many times it's recyclable. the manufacturing processes and the recycling processes themselves also need to be taken into account.
which requires more energy, over the long haul, to manufacture and recycle ?
which pollutes more, over the long haul w/each item and its processes of manufacture ?
etc...
(i don't know the answers to these q's-just pointing out that using just the criterion of how many times something can be recycled, one can't really say which is more environmentally benign)
Phixer
New member
paper doesn't accumulate forever in the environment.
it's also not just about how many times it's recyclable. the manufacturing processes and the recycling processes themselves also need to be taken into account.
which requires more energy, over the long haul, to manufacture and recycle ?
which pollutes more, over the long haul w/each item and its processes of manufacture ?
etc...
(i don't know the answers to these q's-just pointing out that using just the criterion of how many times something can be recycled, one can't really say which is more environmentally benign)
The video in post 99 answers this question pretty well.
Really depends on the service life of the end product I suppose.
vitz
New member
i've watched that carlin show many times (huge fan for decades, too, heh)
i don't recall seeing then or now, carlin going into the details/comparisons of the 2 different industries and there respective true environmental impacts. it's way beyond the scope of his act, heh.
such as: how much net petroleum goes into the respective products, from creation to manufacture to consumption (use). what chemicals are used. etc etc
but i'll take wood over petroleum as a source for any product (if those are the 2 source materials 'competing' w/each other).
Wow, I'm 43, don't want to have children, and don't have any already. I want to have a marine aquarium that calms me down enough to continue doing my volunteer work with my therapy dog, who is the host of the special needs program of "Read to the Dog" in our school district, we also do it at the local library once a week. I have some thoughts on stuff everyone has said, but I decided not to breed, and decided to help some of those that have kids that need help. Yikeys =) Some of us are working to help here at home and decided intelligently not to continue to breed. (Although we were probably the ones that should have, natural selection and all). Not bashing, just a strange distraction from an aquarium standpoint.
Phixer
New member
Your a wise person, more people are waking up and thinking the same way. There is a correlation to education and breeding. Higher life forms tend have fewer children where as the others breed like rodents and burden society. Not always the case but more so today.
I wonder how much plastic this hobby uses?
One has to look at it on a linear scale. Initial cost vs sustainability. It costs less in terms of resources to produce a plastic bag when you consider that the bag is indefinitely re-useable.
Like George Carlin said, the products to produce the plastic come from the ground. Eventually the earth will assimilate these things after we are gone.
If gas were to rise to $8.00 a gallon, we would find alternate sources to petroleum. I like wood also but think the answer still lies in population growth. If humans were to pursue alternate sources of fuel and breed less things would improve.
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vitz
New member
link?
do you know how much energy is needed and how much pollution is involved in the very act and process of recycling said plastic?
is most plastic (bags or whatever) produced actually ever recycled ?
plastic is far from the benign thing it seems you're trying to make it out to be.
i would like to see you back up your statements w/actual facts/data-for now, it's just your unsubstantiated opinion
Phixer
New member
:lmao::lol:
[profanity]
Yes, about 100 calories depending on your metobolic rate. I pick the bag up and then re-use it = 100 calories. When I can no longer re-use I make them into statues of Chuck Norris and worship them.
Yes, according to the plastic sack recyclers commission headed by Al Gore all plastic sacks are re-used, after inventing the internet he devised software that tracks them all individually. Eventually they end up as garden gnomes.
Benign...yes, your probably right. I once was attacked by a gang of Ninjas and had to fight them off with plastic sacks. Paper would have torn. My fish prefer plastic bags also as they kept falling thru the paper sacks before I was able to get them home.
Why? Seriously...We both know that wouldn't matter any more than the plastic keyboard your using to type your "unsubstantiated" opinions on and how do you cite real world experience? You wouldnt accept it because it would dissolve your argument and then where would the anger go? It's about efficiency, why would one expend the energy on such a futile effort. My job is not to convince you, eventually you'll convince yourself when you run out of options. If you "truly claim to care" look it up yourself or visit the rest of the world... although I do respect your opinion and I like pulis.
It puts the lotion in the basket.
link?
do you know how much energy is needed and how much pollution is involved in the very act and process of recycling said plastic?
is most plastic (bags or whatever) produced actually ever recycled ?
plastic is far from the benign thing it seems you're trying to make it out to be.
i would like to see you back up your statements w/actual facts/data-for now, it's just your unsubstantiated opinion
[profanity]
Yes, about 100 calories depending on your metobolic rate. I pick the bag up and then re-use it = 100 calories. When I can no longer re-use I make them into statues of Chuck Norris and worship them.
Yes, according to the plastic sack recyclers commission headed by Al Gore all plastic sacks are re-used, after inventing the internet he devised software that tracks them all individually. Eventually they end up as garden gnomes.
Benign...yes, your probably right. I once was attacked by a gang of Ninjas and had to fight them off with plastic sacks. Paper would have torn. My fish prefer plastic bags also as they kept falling thru the paper sacks before I was able to get them home.
Why? Seriously...We both know that wouldn't matter any more than the plastic keyboard your using to type your "unsubstantiated" opinions on and how do you cite real world experience? You wouldnt accept it because it would dissolve your argument and then where would the anger go? It's about efficiency, why would one expend the energy on such a futile effort. My job is not to convince you, eventually you'll convince yourself when you run out of options. If you "truly claim to care" look it up yourself or visit the rest of the world... although I do respect your opinion and I like pulis.
It puts the lotion in the basket.
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vitz
New member
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Phixer
New member
Bill, does this effect the sharks that like to eat those sea turtles in the same way? A sharks digestive system is not as susceptible to these things due to adaptation, although this takes a long, long time. I may be wrong but eventually the bag would return to the sea after the shark passes it. A milliion years later were left with a sea full plastic bags and animals smart enough not to eat them.
Or we make them biodegradable.
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Well, sharks are a much older species than sea turtles, so I doubt they have adapted to plastic bags in their diet (via gut contents of their prey or other means) any more than sea turtles have. As for the effect on sharks of such a diet, I'll have to run that past some shark researchers I know. If anything, I expect the sharks ability to eat non digestible turtle shell might aid them in passing that plastic bag.
Phixer
New member
Some people seem to not understand how to use a dictionary:
re·cy·cle
[ree-sahy-kuhl] Show IPA verb, re·cy·cled, re·cy·cling, noun
verb (used with object)
1. to treat or process (used or waste materials) so as to make suitable for reuse: recycling paper to save trees.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/recycle
"It does what it's told."
re·cy·cle
[ree-sahy-kuhl] Show IPA verb, re·cy·cled, re·cy·cling, noun
verb (used with object)
1. to treat or process (used or waste materials) so as to make suitable for reuse: recycling paper to save trees.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/recycle
"It does what it's told."
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Phixer
New member
Makes sense.
vitz
New member
so all of your posts refer to re-using, NOT recycling
i'm still waiting for you to back up your implication that the production and recycling of plastic is more environmentally friendly than that of paper.
are you capable of engaging in a proper discussion, or are you merely interested in trolling, as evidenced by your posts ?
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