lucky_snapper
New member
I saw a video on youtube of a guy fragging a green haddoni.. pulled it out, put it on a cutting board and cut it in to 4's.. I would thing that would kill it instantly but maybe I am wrong ????
Fragging Haddoni
- Thread starter lucky_snapper
- Start date
This is definitely a risky thing to do but it can be done succesfully. There are several threads on here of people successfully fragging their anemones. Haddonis are actually somewhat hardy for clown hosting anemones and more delicate anemones like Magnificas have been succesfully fragged.
BonsaiNut
Premium Member
Nooooo! Not again!!!!
(1) Only two anemones (E. quadricolor and H. magnifica) are known to asexually reproduce with any frequency in the wild. Only these two species can be fragged with anything approaching a 50% or better success rate (ie over the long haul you end up with more anemones than you start with). Even for the hardiest, most prolific clown anemone (E. quadricolor) the success rate is not 100%.
(2) Some anemone species that have limited or no records of asexually reproducing in the wild (S. gigantea, M. doreensis, et al) have NO record of EVER being successfully fragged. Lots of people have tried, lots of anemones have died. Zero successes.
(3) Some anemone species (S. haddoni, S. mertensii, et al) have occasionally been fragged successfully, though success rates have at best been 50%, and the jury is still out about the long term impact to the fragged offspring. In other words, an anemone was cut in half, one half lived and one half died, and the half that "lived" ended up slowly dwindling and dying after a short period (perhaps a year or so).
DO NOT BE FOOLED by videos of people cutting anemones in half! Any fool with a razor blade and cutting board can cut an anemone in half! You will likely just end up killing a beautiful creature as well as wasting a lot of money.
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BonsaiNut
Premium Member
This is probably the single most hotly debated anemone topic on this forum.
Bottom line, ALL of these anemone species reproduce sexually in the wild. Only two of them reproduce asexually with any frequency (in addition to reproducing sexually). If you were really interested in reproducing anemones, the key would be to figure out how to culture them using sexual reproduction.
It HAS been done with E. quadricolor and H. crispa, but in a scientific lab setting. I would prefer to challenge people to do it with other species as well. In addition to the environmental benefits, I believe there would be a decent market.
Bottom line, ALL of these anemone species reproduce sexually in the wild. Only two of them reproduce asexually with any frequency (in addition to reproducing sexually). If you were really interested in reproducing anemones, the key would be to figure out how to culture them using sexual reproduction.
It HAS been done with E. quadricolor and H. crispa, but in a scientific lab setting. I would prefer to challenge people to do it with other species as well. In addition to the environmental benefits, I believe there would be a decent market.
BonsaiNut
Premium Member
There had never been a single record of a S. haddoni being cut into four parts and having ANY of the parts survive.
elegance coral
They call me EC
It will never end.
As long as Calfo's dribble is still published, and there are these videos on youtube, there will be people that are misguided into believing it. Unfortunately, this will continue to kill anemones. At least we are making a difference, and changing the minds of many hobbyists. A few years ago it was a common belief here on RC as well.
ousnakebyte
New member
Here we go again... sigh...
BonsaiNut
Premium Member
I wish one of you guys (and gals) would hurry up and get successful breeding these anemones so we can put this behind us. I know of two separate individuals who are trying right now.
The first thread that I see here that says "successful sexual reproduction of x anemone" I will ship that individual a case of beer!
The first thread that I see here that says "successful sexual reproduction of x anemone" I will ship that individual a case of beer!
elegance coral
They call me EC
The first thread that I see here that says "successful sexual reproduction of x anemone" I will ship that individual a case of beer!
I need to hurry up and get a male haddoni. My female spawned a few months back, and I'm sure I can get her to do it again. I just need a healthy male to go with her. :beer:
I do have a large gigantea(20+ inches) in the same tank with my haddoni. There are theories that haddoni and gigantea hybridize. IF they do, and IF my gigantea is a male, MAYBE they'll spawn at the same time. If so, I will be collecting the eggs. That's allot of ifs and maybes though.
elegance coral
They call me EC
I read an article online about it. That was a couple of years ago, and I lost the link. One of the things I found strange/interesting is that the young crispas had knobs on their tentacles like aurora. Always made me wonder if they had their ID correct.
ousnakebyte
New member
The first thread that I see here that says "successful sexual reproduction of x anemone" I will ship that individual a case of beer!
SOLD! Successful Sexual Reproduction of Urticina columbiana and U. crassicornis - two different Pacific Northwest species (you didn't specify that it had to be tropical 'nems...
)U. columbiana at about 20 days development (you can see the oral pore):
Settled and growing at about three months here:
U. crassicornis a few hours after spawning:
Three months development:
and one weird two-headed one...
I like brown ales - something like Newcastle or Smithwicks.... :beer:
Cheers
Mike
BonsaiNut
Premium Member
You are correct! I didn't specify I was looking for something a little more clown-friendly
However.... I also didn't specify that you got to choose the beer!
Question - I'm assuming the first photo is of larval/planular stage(?) Did you try to get them to settle on substrate? Or did you just use an empty glass container? I have heard of selective settlement and issues with metamorphosis if you don't have the right substrate.
2nd question - in the 4th photo I see a lot of spheres. I assume that is a food source(?) What are you using - it doesn't look like decapsulated brine shrimp...
BTW - thank you for sharing! Those are amazing photos! Are you conducting research?
I didn't specify I was looking for something a little more clown-friendly However.... I also didn't specify that you got to choose the beer!
Question - I'm assuming the first photo is of larval/planular stage(?) Did you try to get them to settle on substrate? Or did you just use an empty glass container? I have heard of selective settlement and issues with metamorphosis if you don't have the right substrate.
2nd question - in the 4th photo I see a lot of spheres. I assume that is a food source(?) What are you using - it doesn't look like decapsulated brine shrimp...
BTW - thank you for sharing! Those are amazing photos! Are you conducting research?
elegance coral
They call me EC
Did you get any pic's of the spawning event?
Sometimes there can be a fine line between sexual and asexual reproduction. If two or more animals release eggs and sperm into the water, we can be relatively sure the offspring were produced sexually. If the offspring are simply discharged from the mouth of a single animal, things get a little complicated. Your third pic, taken "a few hours after spawning", shows what appears to be tentacle formation. This leads me to believe that fertilization did not take place after spawning. A few hours simply isn't enough time to go from an egg to an animals with tentacles. Development must have started inside the mother polyp. This is where that fine line comes in. larva that develop inside the animal may be produced sexually or asexually. We would need genetic testing, or necropsy of mother polyps to determine how the offspring are being produced.
I'm running into this same problem with elegance corals. I'd like to be able to say, what I'm seeing is sexual reproduction, but as of right now I simply can't.
Sometimes there can be a fine line between sexual and asexual reproduction. If two or more animals release eggs and sperm into the water, we can be relatively sure the offspring were produced sexually. If the offspring are simply discharged from the mouth of a single animal, things get a little complicated. Your third pic, taken "a few hours after spawning", shows what appears to be tentacle formation. This leads me to believe that fertilization did not take place after spawning. A few hours simply isn't enough time to go from an egg to an animals with tentacles. Development must have started inside the mother polyp. This is where that fine line comes in. larva that develop inside the animal may be produced sexually or asexually. We would need genetic testing, or necropsy of mother polyps to determine how the offspring are being produced.
I'm running into this same problem with elegance corals. I'd like to be able to say, what I'm seeing is sexual reproduction, but as of right now I simply can't.
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elegance coral
They call me EC
I love this pic. Some people here believe these deformities are a form of reproduction. I think this pic clearly shows that, at least in this individule, its simply a deformity caused in early development.
//and one weird two-headed one...
Mike
this is me
Active member
Is there a way to induce anemone spawning? I have two 12"+ giganteas and 12" red haddoni. Just want to see if I have a male and female pair.
elegance coral
They call me EC
I think its the same for anemones as it is for any other animal. If they are healthy, well fed, and stress free, nature will take its course. It takes a great deal of food to get most animals into breeding condition. Just ask any clown fish breeder. They have to obtain, not just enough nutrition to keep themselves going, but enough excess nutrition to produce eggs and sperm. Many captive anemones aren't fed at all. Which may help explain why spawning events are so rare.
I started feeding my haddoni every day. After about six months, this is what happened. Just ignore my friends in the background.
<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/XyYpHPTDJ88" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
ousnakebyte
New member
DOH! I'm getting Milwaukie's Best, aren't I...? Please, PLESAE no Natty Light!
Yes, and they were in that planula phase MUCH longer than I expected - almost a month before I saw any settlement. I honestly thought they had all died until I finally saw the teeniest, tiniest new anemones. Then, I found more and more...
Re settlement - I was going off what I know for corals, what can be very specific per species; others just want a biofilm. I did do a quick and dirty scan of journals, but I didn't come up with anything. So, I gave them pretty much everything - clam shells, rocks that had been in the system, small gravel. In the end, they settled on pretty much anything - even the aquarium glass.
Yes, I was throwing whatever I could at them. Frozen rotifers, newly-hatched decapsulated brine, and yes, I did use decapsulated brine eggs. However, in that particular photo, the decapsulation method I was using for that batch of brine eggs didn't go so well (I was trying something new), so I went back to my old faithful after that. So, yeah, there were some brine eggs that never lost the outer cyst/shell.
Today they are big enough to eat whole frozen mysis shrimps.
Thanks. I wasn't intending to do any research with these - just display animals. I simply walked in one morning (actually, it was three different mornings for the two different species), and the tank was cloudy. However, instead of dumping everything down the drain with a water change, I gave it the 'ol college try - and it worked! But, far too many uncontrollables for a paper.
However, I did use the same fertilization and rearing techniques we use with coral larvae, so that may have helped my cause...????
MANY!
This is the first spawn, with the U. columbiana. I walked in and everything was pretty much over. Only a few eggs were floating around the tank, and one individual was still releasing sperm:
I got a turkey baster and siphoned as much sperm with as little water as possible and threw it under the scope:
Then, that painstaking process of harvesting eggs with a pipette from the water column:
I put egg and sperm together in a 50mL vial, but fertilization almost certainly happened in the water column - unless it was self-fert, which, I'm assuming only a genetic test will be able to identify...??? All told with the U. columbiana, I only collected about 50 eggs, and today there are a dozen left.
The U. crassicornis was a differentl story. I caught them in the act on two separate days!
Male repeasing sperm:
Eggs were just dribbling out of the females, and I didn't have all day - so I squeezed them...
And got this:
I then put them in 50mL vials for fert, matching basically what we do with coral egg/sperm. You try to make the water look about like "lemonade" for proper sperm concentration. But again... I cannot be sure that fertilization didn't happen in the tank already.
Interesting - the U. columbiana eggs were floating mid column - almost neutrally buoyant. The U. crassicornis eggs were definitely positively buoyant - look at all that cheddar on the surface!!!
That's the blastula phase - they turn into these, almost spiky balls. Gastrulation would have taken place after that, but I never got any pics - it must have happened over night b/c when I got in the next morning, they were back to being spherical. They floated for a few days before developing into this weird, "mushroom phase" that looks like one big ball sitting on top of a small ball. They swam around like that for several days, I'm assuming looking for a settlemnt cue. These guys also in the end mostly settled on the glass.
Here is a pic from our Singapore Coral Spawning Workshop - spawn collected from the surface slick with a potpourri of coral species, some which are "blastulating."
Perhaps this deserves its own thread...? I dunno...
Cheers
Mike
lucky_snapper
New member
Wow I did not realize that this was such a hotly debated topic..
