From chaeto refugium to Algae turf scrubber! Anyone?
- Thread starter Brian DeGolier
- Start date
jwoyshnar
Active member
Left side is GAC/Skimmer/Chaeto. Right side is 10 weeks later with ATS.
very good example of what a scrubber can do, besides of the plankton that the scrubber puts back into the water.
Stevetcg, did you stop the GAC and skimming, and if so, how long ago was that 10 week picture taken?
Left pic was taken on 11/1/11 and right picture was taken on 12/29/11.
When I put in the ATS, I removed the GAC and skimmer. I would put a filter sock in the sump and blow the rocks with a turkey baster every week or so.
The tank remains perfectly clear. I have finally gotten to start populating it with corals, all of which are doing great. The only negative I noticed through the whole process is that the Green Star Polyps died.
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
Randy I have yet to really see any yellowing of the water and I have been running a scrubber for 16 months. I can pull the water out of the tank into a white bucket at any given time and it looks like freshly mixed SW, perfectly clear. I mean perfectly.
Yellowing of the water is a result of insufficient lighting, which causes the roots of the algae (where it attaches to the screen) to die off. This was a common result of the past ATS designs which didn't have intense enough lighting to prevent die-off of the lower layers, which had the light blocked by the growth over the top of it. The advent of CFL and T5HO has virtually eliminated this problem.
In a properly built and maintained scrubber, this does not happen, and I feel I have concretely proved that to myself.
Yellowing of the water also is associated with cleaning of the algae screen while still in the tank, a practice of the past, no longer a problem.
I can't comment much on the buildup of DOCs in a tank that only runs a scrubber, other than to say that the tank I run a scrubber on has had nothing in it but a scrubber. I take that back, I did have one 100mL bag of Purigen in the sump, or maybe 2, I can't recall. In May, when the original tank developed a crack, I moved the contents, then moved again when the new tank arrived in November. Since May, nothing but scrubber. Tank water is crystal clear, so I don't know if that is a fair gauge of DOCs (I'm sure it's not the only one).
Conversely another 225g FOWLR that I have yet to put a scrubber on (it runs filter pad, bioballs, and a skimmer, and was newly set-up about 2 years ago) has nitrates off the scale and is yellow as h.e. double toothpicks. I'm curious myself to see what the effect of the scrubber has on this tank's conditions...
Yellowing of the water is a result of insufficient lighting, which causes the roots of the algae (where it attaches to the screen) to die off. This was a common result of the past ATS designs which didn't have intense enough lighting to prevent die-off of the lower layers, which had the light blocked by the growth over the top of it. The advent of CFL and T5HO has virtually eliminated this problem.
In a properly built and maintained scrubber, this does not happen, and I feel I have concretely proved that to myself.
Yellowing of the water also is associated with cleaning of the algae screen while still in the tank, a practice of the past, no longer a problem.
I can't comment much on the buildup of DOCs in a tank that only runs a scrubber, other than to say that the tank I run a scrubber on has had nothing in it but a scrubber. I take that back, I did have one 100mL bag of Purigen in the sump, or maybe 2, I can't recall. In May, when the original tank developed a crack, I moved the contents, then moved again when the new tank arrived in November. Since May, nothing but scrubber. Tank water is crystal clear, so I don't know if that is a fair gauge of DOCs (I'm sure it's not the only one).
Conversely another 225g FOWLR that I have yet to put a scrubber on (it runs filter pad, bioballs, and a skimmer, and was newly set-up about 2 years ago) has nitrates off the scale and is yellow as h.e. double toothpicks. I'm curious myself to see what the effect of the scrubber has on this tank's conditions...
ravi197699
Member
above pic discribe my tank and i hope i get same results as that tank
Brian DeGolier
New member
Left side is GAC/Skimmer/Chaeto. Right side is 10 weeks later with ATS.
Steve- Wow, thanks for posting, I will definately keep this one in mind when I go through my next experimental episode of redoing my nutrient control system. Would you mind posting a picture of your design?
Brian DeGolier
New member
with the water too clean, did you just have a lot of die off of snails and bugs and fish that relied on the algae for food? How about coral growth, did they slow down and bleach at all? What were the effects? Thanks
Snookster
New member
Lost most of my lps, the gsp and zoas were in the process of fading away. Didn't seem to affect the sps too much, yet. I did lose some snails. I moved several to the fuge to eat algae growing on light spill areas. Most my fish are small and I don't over feed, so my nutrients were pretty low to start with.
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
not feeding enough was probably the issue. LPS and softies like 'dirtier' water. I have a whole mixed bag in the tank I run the scrubber on. So far I have found that hammers, frogspawns, and dendros and for some reason ORA Green Birdsnest seem to retract toward the end of the algae growth period. However acans, cabbage leather, toadstools, colt, red cap, tri-color valida, war coral, candy cane, yellow polyps, ricordea, green digitata, trumpet, anemones, and especially mushrooms love the tank. Waving hand and xenia grow like nuts. Zoas seem to be hit or miss. I have one colony that has completely covered a large rock, and 3 others either slowly growing or holding their own, and one more that is just hanging on.
your observation about 'too clean' could be an effect of the screen being oversized in relation to your feeding. If you went be the old sizing requirement (tank size) instead of the new ones (based on feeding) your algae would turn yellow on the screen after it pulled all the N and P out, and yellow algae does not filter as well (although it still filters, it's just spread out over too large of an area so it's 'choked off'). This actually may be what happened to my tank, because that's where I'm at right now (yellow growth) and I'm getting ready to replace the oversized scrubber & screen with one appropriately sized for the feeding.
I also have noticed that since there is not a lot of algae in the tank to feed on, the reliance on a CUC seems to be less necessary. I try to focus on substrate dwellers and small 'nook and crannie' snails, and much less on the plowing Turbo snails as there just isn't a need for the size of crew that most suggest. I think some would recommend a CUC for a 144 of something like 300 snails and hermits and I bet I have 20 all together (and no algae problem in the tank). granted I'm planning on adding more, but not a significant amount.
your observation about 'too clean' could be an effect of the screen being oversized in relation to your feeding. If you went be the old sizing requirement (tank size) instead of the new ones (based on feeding) your algae would turn yellow on the screen after it pulled all the N and P out, and yellow algae does not filter as well (although it still filters, it's just spread out over too large of an area so it's 'choked off'). This actually may be what happened to my tank, because that's where I'm at right now (yellow growth) and I'm getting ready to replace the oversized scrubber & screen with one appropriately sized for the feeding.
I also have noticed that since there is not a lot of algae in the tank to feed on, the reliance on a CUC seems to be less necessary. I try to focus on substrate dwellers and small 'nook and crannie' snails, and much less on the plowing Turbo snails as there just isn't a need for the size of crew that most suggest. I think some would recommend a CUC for a 144 of something like 300 snails and hermits and I bet I have 20 all together (and no algae problem in the tank). granted I'm planning on adding more, but not a significant amount.
Many people, myself included, think their water is clear and nonyellowed until they do a side by side or before and after comparison. In my case, even using skimming and GAC and thinking my water was clear, but running ozone made it much clearer (less yellow). Not only did my wife comment (an unexpected result), but I could show it photographically by taking a picture of a white piece of plastic through the 4 foot length of the tank:
Figure 1. Two digital photographs of a plastic bar taken through four feet of aquarium water. The bar on the left was taken before using ozone, and the bar on the right was taken after two weeks on ozone. The numbers were written onto the bar with marking pens. All camera settings were identical.
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
Thanks for posting that. I should try to do this before and after type of comparison on the tank I mentioned. However mine would not be an equal comparison, as the tank does not run GAC and carbon, it would be a comparison of skimmer/bio-balls/felt pad vs scrubber. Probably not really an apples-to-apples comparison like yours. I think I would have trouble with the camera settings also since I only have a cheapo digital PHD camera (push here dummy)
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
yep. I do have access to a digital SLR possibly, so that would be what I would use I guess.
psykobowler
New member
Yup. A spare fishneedit 150watt double ended 14k metal halide pendant does the job just fine from 10pm at night until 12noon and I am carbon dosing and using gfo. It's not like you need a 250 or 400 watt radium with a galaxy ballast which I use in the main display.
Would you rather run 2 800 watt titanium heaters or a 150 watt halide in your fuge to raise the tank temperature at night when the first floor of your house is at a stable 67 degrees? The electricity used heats up the tank, the 67degree room and grows your chaeto which removes phosphates, etc. The heater just heats the aquarium.
BigCountry74
New member
I cannot get chaeto to grow, which is a good thing, my po4 always test for 0 - so something else it eating it, or it's simply not there yet (tank is new, under 6 months). light stocked 135g. Tank is clean though, starting to really grow some corraline now. Going to pull the chaeto out and try the scrubber in the fuge, bought everything I need at Lowes and Wal-Mart...need another DIY anyway to keep me entertained....
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
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