fuge design

jacksonpt

New member
Here is my plan. It's not to scale (skimmer will obviously be larger, baffles will probably be moved some, etc), but this is the basic concept of what I'm thinking.

fugeV2.jpg


Here is some of what I'm thinking with the design:
  • Make best use of limited space under stand
  • Maximize fuge for biological diversity and nutrient export (i.e. pods, worms, DSB, LR, macro aglae, etc)
  • Promote "better interaction" between macro algae and water (race track design will hopefully force more water through macro algae, as opposed to just flowing around/over). There is little to suggest this will have any real benefit, but I figure it can't hurt, and it's always fun to try something a little different.

Those are the highlights. I'll be using a 20tall for the fuge, and I ordered the skimmer, bulkheads and hole saw this morning, so if the gods are smiling on me, I'll have a weekend project.

Thoughts and opinions are always welcome.
 
any reason you are running your drain through a bulkhead? 90's are loud.

Also, I'm assuming the back half is the fuge... if your return is there it will cause it to be a high flow area and suck all the pods out/clog with macro.

Typically you see:
|-----------------------------|
|------|-------| ------------- |
| fuge | return | skimmer/drain-|
___________________________

with the fuge fed with low flow from a T on the drain or return
 
any reason you are running your drain through a bulkhead? 90's are loud.
To prevent turbulence in the fuge. It'll be 45ed in, which is basically the same setup I'm running now. I'm not too worried about noise, but if push comes to shove, I can cap the bulk head and run the drain more traditionally

Also, I'm assuming the back half is the fuge... if your return is there it will cause it to be a high flow area and suck all the pods out/clog with macro.
Everything except the skimmer section (that front third or so) will be fuge. Flow through the fuge will be pretty slow, and I'll setup something at that bulkhead to keep a low pressure draw to the return to prevent anything from being sucked in.

Typically you see:
|-----------------------------|
|------|-------| ------------- |
| fuge | return | skimmer/drain-|
___________________________

with the fuge fed with low flow from a T on the drain or return
I know that's the standard design, but because of my setup, that would be pretty ineffecient. In a 20tall, the fuge section would end up being so small it wouldn't really accomplish anything. My thinking is that my setup would dedicate more volume to the fuge without seeing any real sacrifices.

That's my hope at least. If there's anything I should learn from history, it's that every time I think I'm on to some good idea, I end up with water on the floor.
 
OK, I ordered the skimmer and I have the tank, so I'm actually working with some more solid numbers now. I laid things out over the weekend based on the design above and I don't think it will work well. Conceptually it was an interesting idea that I'd still like to try some day, but in reality, for what I'm working with, I don't think it will work well.

So here's the new design. It's much closer to the standard sump/fuge design, except I'm thinking about running the return pump externally so I can dedicate more room to the fuge. I've never had an issue with bubbles in my tanks, so I don't have any sort of bubble trap. Am I asking for problems?

SumpDesignV1.jpg
 
I would think that you will have micro bubbles from the skimmer go into the display unless you dump the skimmer return into the fuge, even then it is possible to get bubbles. and no mechanical filtration? no carbon or phos remover?
 
microbubbles? probably, yes. Your return is in with the skimmer effluent which is filled with bubbles. Def think trap.

Need unions and ball valves for easy removal of return pump. This will impede some flow (this is why in-sump is a nice alternative, then just need one union.)

You'll probably want carbon somewhere.

Hey, where does everyone find the pvc parts for sketchup? I'd like to get some! lmk, thx.

best,
-A
 
In the past I've always had an "open" sump - no baffles or anything with my skimmer and return. Never had any problems so I was hoping the microbubble issue was more something of lore on forums like this... stories people tell newbie sump builders to scare them or something. It's easy enough to build in a trap, just need to shorten down the fuge a bit - not my ideal, but not a big deal.

Mechanical filtration - I've got a little power filter I run cabon/phosban in. That's about all I have room for at this point.

Unions. I've got one for the drain (just didn't draw it in, too lazy), and my return will have flex hose/hose clamps, so no need for unions there.

The PVC parts are in the 3D Warehouse (File > 3D Warehouse > Get Objects) - just search for what you are looking for.
 
your going to create bubles after the trap form the falling water from the fuge i would suggest to drop the water in before the baffles.
 
Why not put 2 baffles in. Think skimmer on left, Return in the center, Fuge on right. You could either y the drain. Or have a y after the return feeding your fuge. Vince with such little flow going to the refuge i doubt there will be any bubbles.
 
2 baffles (i.e. 2 "chambers" in the sump) take up too much room. The resulting fuge would be so small it would largely defeat the purpose of this project.

Flow from the fuge will be pretty slow, and there will be virtually no drop.
 
only thing I would do is change the fuge overflow into the skimmer area

I would not do that. I think people normally put the fuge return to the main tank bypassing the skimmer so that all the critters get into the main tank, right? This was my plan.

Jackson, How small is too small, really, for the fuge? I mean, who's to say that the size you've got planned is large enough, really, right? I was only going to create a small fuge (I have a large skimmer, and am putting my pump in-sump.) Is there some info you have about a critical cut-off size that I'm unaware of?

-A
 
Jackson I wouldn't drill the fuge for the water coming from the tank. There is no need to do that and you don't want the pipe to be submerged like that anyway IME. It will create a direct siphon and can make your overflow noisy. I guess it depends on your overflow and the size of your return pump but by drilling the hole and making it permanent you lose the ability to adjust it if needed and gain nothing. Just run the pvc over the side and into the skimmer section. This will give you much more flexibility IMO.

I would be hesitant to have a right angle and such a long distance to the return pumps intake as well. I think you may want to shorten that and even consider if possible no right angle at all. If the right angle is required because of space limitations maybe you can try it on the other side or at least shorten the pipe after the right angle.

Lastly you may experience some problems with mirco bubbles having the fuge area dump directly in the return area as you have it shown. I realize you want to try to maximize the size of the fuge area and the amount of possible life you are returning to the main display from the fuge but it may not be worth it considering the cost (micro bubbles). I would consider having the fuge dump into the skimmer section so they can share the bubble trap. Your skimmer may suck out some of the life but much of it will still get through and you will have solved the potential micro bubble problem.

Food for thought...
 
Jackson, How small is too small, really, for the fuge? I mean, who's to say that the size you've got planned is large enough, really, right? I was only going to create a small fuge (I have a large skimmer, and am putting my pump in-sump.) Is there some info you have about a critical cut-off size that I'm unaware of?

-A
I suspect that anything is better than nothing, but from all the reading I've done (some from VERY knowledgable sources) say 10% of your system volume is the minimum size for a fuge for it to have any meaningful benefit.

For me personally, I'm trying to avoid mechanical filtration as much as possible, so I want the biggest fuge I can get, which is ~10g. Some day I'd love to get back to a skimmerless system, but I also don't want to run an ultralight bioload (would like more than 1 fish).
 
I would not do that. I think people normally put the fuge return to the main tank bypassing the skimmer so that all the critters get into the main tank, right? This was my plan.
-A

You are right Jerry and I thought about this but without reducing the size of the fuge and adding more baffles between the fuge section and the return section he may not have any other choice. I am not saying there will definitely be a micro bubble problem but there is a good chance in my experience.
 
Jackson I wouldn't drill the fuge for the water coming from the tank. There is no need to do that and you don't want the pipe to be submerged like that anyway IME. It will create a direct siphon and can make your overflow noisy. I guess it depends on your overflow and the size of your return pump but by drilling the hole and making it permanent you lose the ability to adjust it if needed and gain nothing. Just run the pvc over the side and into the skimmer section. This will give you much more flexibility IMO.

I would be hesitant to have a right angle and such a long distance to the return pumps intake as well. I think you may want to shorten that and even consider if possible no right angle at all. If the right angle is required because of space limitations maybe you can try it on the other side or at least shorten the pipe after the right angle.

Lastly you may experience some problems with mirco bubbles having the fuge area dump directly in the return area as you have it shown. I realize you want to try to maximize the size of the fuge area and the amount of possible life you are returning to the main display from the fuge but it may not be worth it considering the cost (micro bubbles). I would consider having the fuge dump into the skimmer section so they can share the bubble trap. Your skimmer may suck out some of the life but much of it will still get through and you will have solved the potential micro bubble problem.

Food for thought...

Good stuff, thanks.

Shortening the run from sump to return is easy, but I'm not sure I can avoid the 90. As for the rest of it... the skimmer should be here this weekend. Once I have everything I'll have a better idea of how it all fits together. Then I can make some real decisions (not just in drawings) about the drain line, the fuge overflow, etc.
 

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